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Date: 29 Jun 2006 19:00:36
From: razmoo
Subject: question about decaf coffee
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Hi,
I'm not very familiar with all different bean/blend characteristics and
was wondering if someone could help me out.
I have a siliva and a rocky and normally use a blend from a local
roaster and everything goes great.
Then a friend came over and she had some fresh decaf beans, very very
shiney. I ground up some beans using the same settings. (Its quite fine
and I didn't particularly want to adjust it for 1 coffee)
The espresso came out really weird, VERY bubbly/frothy and came out
very quick. I thought I might not have dossed/tamped correctly so I
tried again and same thing happened.
Is this normal for very shiney beans? I guess I could of went finer but
then it would of been like turkish.
Cheers,
razmo
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 21:59:12
From: IMAWriter
Subject: Re: question about decaf coffee
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notbob wrote:
> On 2006-06-30, razmoo <anson.d@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The espresso came out really weird, VERY bubbly/frothy and came out
>
> I tried all SM's decaf and didn't like a one, either as brewed coffee
> or as espresso. I finally turned to Tasters Choice. Now that I have
> a pump instead of a lever, I may try again. I'm not hopefull. I like
> body in my coffee. Decaf has none.
>
> nb
I respectfully disagree with you...granted, taste is subjective, but
many on CG have had excellent results with decaf...at least as a milk
drink...I have been roasting and pulling shots(Mazzer SJ/Quickmill
Anita) with Sweet Marias "Donkey" decaf blend for over 2 years....I
agree that as a straight shot, pretty much all decaf SO's and blends
come up 2nd best to regular ane, but as a true cappa...a 1.5-2oz
double shot at 25 seconds, and 4-5 oz of solid micro-foam...about 1 out
of 2 times I pull off THAT miracle... the result is a quite delicious
cup, with much chocolate essence...and it is a very easy blend to
roast...I do 14oz green in my Stir Crazy/Convection Oven combo...
Robert (less than perfect shots result in spousal Americano's) Jason
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 03:52:06
From: notbob
Subject: Re: question about decaf coffee
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On 2006-06-30, IMAWriter <jasongs4everdeletethis@hotmail.com > wrote:
>> a pump instead of a lever, I may try again.
>> nb
> of 2 times I pull off THAT miracle... the result is a quite delicious
> cup, with much chocolate essence...and it is a very easy blend to
Well, as I stated, I'm willing to go back and give it another shot, so
to speak. Maybe my Solis will make it different. Thnx for the advice.
nb
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Date: 01 Jul 2006 20:33:36
From: Brent
Subject: Re: question about decaf coffee
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As others have noted in this thread, decaf can be a pig, but keep searching
for a good one - they exist.
Freshness is definitely important - don't let it get to old - I find two
weeks is about it, but while it is fresh it can be every bit as good as a
noraml coffee. I drink it all as espresso.
Brent
>
>>> a pump instead of a lever, I may try again.
>>> nb
>
>> of 2 times I pull off THAT miracle... the result is a quite delicious
>> cup, with much chocolate essence...and it is a very easy blend to
>
> Well, as I stated, I'm willing to go back and give it another shot, so
> to speak. Maybe my Solis will make it different. Thnx for the advice.
>
> nb
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 21:14:26
From: Richard Reynolds
Subject: Re: question about decaf coffee
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razmoo wrote:
I'm pretty sure it was fresh because she bought it direct from this
roaster that has quite a good reputation.. At the most it was a couple
packaged days old. (I'm not sure how long people generally leave beans
out before packaging).
It just seemed like if I extracted for 25 seconds I would be getting
like 100 (bubbly) mls.
Hi Razmoo--
I would second what Ken said and add a few more things that became
clear in researching my article (well, actually, some of them became
clear well before I started on the article):
1) Decaf espresso is really difficult to work with and particulary
prone to channeling.
2) You'll generally have to dial the grind down a bit in order to slow
down the extraction to an acceptable level--as opposed to a nondecaf
blend.
3) Many "reputable" roasters don't put nearly as much care into their
decaf as their regular, and if the roaster is small he'll have to pay
very careful attention to where he's getting his decaffeinated green.
Much of the decaffeinated green on the market is made with beans that
were poor quality to begin with. Only big roasters like Intelligentsia
and Counter Culture can afford to choose their own green, send it off
to a decaffeinator, and then get it shipped back to their roasing
plant.
4) Decaf has a dismayingly short shelf life. Within five or six days of
roast date it's already lost its edge. And while I've found I can
freeze regular beans for three or four weeks and still get very nice
shots, freezing just doesn't seem to work with decaf.
5) Things are improving, and there are some very nice decaf espresso
blends out there. Caffe D'arte's decaf espresso, Intelligentsia's decaf
Black Cat, and Terroir's La Lapa Northern Italian Style Decaf
Espresso offer an interesting range of possibilities.
6) While I've found I can make very enjoyable milk drinks from several
decaf espresso blends, the stars have to be perfectly alligned to pull
a straight decaf shot that does the trick.
7) As others will undoubtedly add, the freshness issue is a really good
argument for roasting your own, a step I have yet to take.
--Richard
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 22:35:03
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: question about decaf coffee
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Hi Richard,
Nice article and nice to see an occasional post from you!
ken
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 19:27:40
From: razmoo
Subject: Re: question about decaf coffee
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Ken Fox wrote:
>
> The coloration of decaf beans can be deceptive, especially during roasting,
> and may not always accurately identify the roast level. "Shiny" to me means
> oily, and if you were convinced that the beans were fresh because they were
> oily, then you were mistaken. >
It didn't look overly dark but yes it was damn oily.
I'm pretty sure it was fresh because she bought it direct from this
roaster that has quite a good reputation.. At the most it was a couple
packaged days old. (I'm not sure how long people generally leave beans
out before packaging).
It just seemed like if I extracted for 25 seconds I would be getting
like 100 (bubbly) mls.
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 20:20:31
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: question about decaf coffee
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"razmoo" <anson.d@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1151632836.803912.242500@x69g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> I'm not very familiar with all different bean/blend characteristics and
> was wondering if someone could help me out.
>
> I have a siliva and a rocky and normally use a blend from a local
> roaster and everything goes great.
>
> Then a friend came over and she had some fresh decaf beans, very very
> shiney. I ground up some beans using the same settings. (Its quite fine
> and I didn't particularly want to adjust it for 1 coffee)
>
> The espresso came out really weird, VERY bubbly/frothy and came out
> very quick. I thought I might not have dossed/tamped correctly so I
> tried again and same thing happened.
>
> Is this normal for very shiney beans? I guess I could of went finer but
> then it would of been like turkish.
>
> Cheers,
>
> razmo
>
The coloration of decaf beans can be deceptive, especially during roasting,
and may not always accurately identify the roast level. "Shiny" to me means
oily, and if you were convinced that the beans were fresh because they were
oily, then you were mistaken. Beans get oily by virtue of very dark
roasting or being old, or both. If you mean "very fresh" in that the valve
bagged package of unknown age was recently opened, this is not really
"fresh," fresh for decaf means a few days out of the roaster, no more, as
the coffee degrades very rapidly.
Exactly why your experience with this coffee is unclear as it could be
explained by a number of possibilities. Decaf is virtually never as good as
regular, and old decaf can taste terrible and make very bad shots.
ken
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 02:30:19
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: question about decaf coffee
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On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 20:20:31 -0600, "Ken Fox"
<morceaudemerdeThisMerdeGoes@hotmail.com > wrote:
>Decaf is virtually never as good as
>regular, and old decaf can taste terrible and make very bad shots.
>
>ken
But, the odds of finding good decaf are improving. Excellent new
article by occasional altie, Richard Reynolds:
http://www.freshcup.com/back-issues/2006/2006-07/decaf.htm
Marshall
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 21:17:28
From: notbob
Subject: Re: question about decaf coffee
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On 2006-06-30, razmoo <anson.d@gmail.com > wrote:
> The espresso came out really weird, VERY bubbly/frothy and came out
I tried all SM's decaf and didn't like a one, either as brewed coffee
or as espresso. I finally turned to Tasters Choice. Now that I have
a pump instead of a lever, I may try again. I'm not hopefull. I like
body in my coffee. Decaf has none.
nb
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 23:26:04
From: razmoo
Subject: Re: question about decaf coffee
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Thanks for the info guys.
Just looked over my posts again and it looks like I need a spell
checker. :P
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 17:20:00
From: JoeP
Subject: Re: question about decaf coffee
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razmoo wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm not very familiar with all different bean/blend characteristics and
> was wondering if someone could help me out.
>
> I have a siliva and a rocky and normally use a blend from a local
> roaster and everything goes great.
>
> Then a friend came over and she had some fresh decaf beans, very very
> shiney. I ground up some beans using the same settings. (Its quite fine
> and I didn't particularly want to adjust it for 1 coffee)
>
> The espresso came out really weird, VERY bubbly/frothy and came out
> very quick. I thought I might not have dossed/tamped correctly so I
> tried again and same thing happened.
>
> Is this normal for very shiney beans? I guess I could of went finer but
> then it would of been like turkish.
>
> Cheers,
>
> razmo
Hi Razmo,
In my experience (My wife requires decaff) decaff is subject to various
forms of processing from water process to chemical etc... This
processing seems to have an effect on the way the water flows through
the puck in espresso, not as noticable in drip or other brewing
methods. I'm not sure if its moisture content, or what? There are
plenty of scientist types here that could probably explain the effect
of the processing in the chemical matrix of the coffee bean better than
I can. But in general the beans seem to grind drier/less moist and so
yes things like channeling horizontal and vertical etc... are more
common and usually result in a faster pull. You can try to dial it with
a much finer grind and that usually solves the problem and gives a nice
shot if its really fresh, it will go stale much faster. It really has
nothing to do with the roaster taking extra precautions or anything,
you just have to figure out the grind settings and tamping ritual that
gives you the best result for Decaff. Interestingly I have had more
success with dark roasted decaff espresso, it seems to create a harder
puck after tamping.
Joe
www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com
freinds getting together and splitting bags of coffee
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