coffee-forum.net
Promoting coffee discussion.

Main
Date: 02 Apr 2007 11:19:48
From: DavidMLewis
Subject: commercial machines on timers?
I've discovered that my Techno is one of the heavier contributors to
my electricity use, even though it's in its ECO mode much of the time
(both boilers allowed to go down to 70 C or so). Before I put it on a
timer, though, I'd like to ask others if I'd be courting trouble by
doing so. I have no reason to think that the electronics would mind,
but I'm concerned about pressure-cycling the seals in a way they may
not have been intended for. Am I just being paranoid?

David





 
Date: 08 Apr 2007 08:43:55
From: daveb
Subject: Re: commercial machines on timers?
On Apr 8, 11:33 am, danny...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Apr 2, 9:19 pm, "DavidMLewis" <DavidMLe...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > I've discovered that my Techno is one of the heavier contributors to
> > my electricity use, even though it's in its ECO mode much of the time
> > (both boilers allowed to go down to 70 C or so). Before I put it on a
> > timer, though, I'd like to ask others if I'd be courting trouble by
> > doing so. I have no reason to think that the electronics would mind,
> > but I'm concerned about pressure-cycling the seals in a way they may
> > not have been intended for. Am I just being paranoid?
>
> > David
>
> Hi-
>
> I had a commercial machine timed to cycle on and off 3 times a day.
> Ran for several years that way with no problem, and my electric usage
> went down a significant amount.
>
> Danny

Excellent! this nonsense about timers causing electronic problems is
just that,

nonsense.

global warming anyone?



 
Date: 08 Apr 2007 08:33:28
From:
Subject: Re: commercial machines on timers?
On Apr 2, 9:19 pm, "DavidMLewis" <DavidMLe...@mac.com > wrote:
> I've discovered that my Techno is one of the heavier contributors to
> my electricity use, even though it's in its ECO mode much of the time
> (both boilers allowed to go down to 70 C or so). Before I put it on a
> timer, though, I'd like to ask others if I'd be courting trouble by
> doing so. I have no reason to think that the electronics would mind,
> but I'm concerned about pressure-cycling the seals in a way they may
> not have been intended for. Am I just being paranoid?
>
> David

Hi-

I had a commercial machine timed to cycle on and off 3 times a day.
Ran for several years that way with no problem, and my electric usage
went down a significant amount.

Danny



 
Date: 05 Apr 2007 23:58:38
From: daveb
Subject: Re: commercial machines on timers?
When I started this quest, our house was drawing a total of
> about 32 KWH / day, and the local utility was charging us more than US
> $300 / month for the privilege. So I'm just going through bit by bit
> and seeing what I can get lower than it is. Cleaning condenser coils,
> putting things on timers, insulating, etc.
>
> Best,
> David

Hear hear! apparently they are giving away electricity in some parts
of the world, and others have not heard that maybe one should not
WASTE IT??

Look at the wallwarts all over the house, many consuming 3 or more
watts, 24 X 7 X 365.

Our AC units are OLD and we should replace them asap. for a 50% gain
in efficiency.

Dave



 
Date: 03 Apr 2007 10:46:04
From: DavidMLewis
Subject: Re: commercial machines on timers?
On Apr 2, 8:43 pm, Danny <d...@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote:
> 16p/day - I'd be happy with that anyway

It turns out that when I take it out of ECO mode, it still takes half
an hour or so to really stabilize, so it's on most of the time when
I'm home. When I started this quest, our house was drawing a total of
about 32 KWH / day, and the local utility was charging us more than US
$300 / month for the privilege. So I'm just going through bit by bit
and seeing what I can get lower than it is. Cleaning condenser coils,
putting things on timers, insulating, etc.

Best,
David



 
Date: 02 Apr 2007 17:16:46
From: daveb
Subject: Re: commercial machines on timers?

> Less information than you ever thought possible:http://www.demitasse.net

A lot more likely that surges ( or transient spikes) will hit the
'electronics' during the 24 hours that it is on.

and a timer creates no more "surge" than any on/off switch, despite
what urban legend says.

Dave
www.hitechespresso.com



 
Date: 02 Apr 2007 13:55:25
From: daveb
Subject: Re: commercial machines on timers?
On Apr 2, 3:23 pm, "DavidMLewis" <DavidMLe...@mac.com > wrote:
> On Apr 2, 11:34 am, Danny <d...@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com> wrote:
>
> > DavidMLewis wrote:
> > > I've discovered that my Techno is one of the heavier contributors to
> > > my electricity use, even though it's in its ECO mode much of the time
> > > (both boilers allowed to go down to 70 C or so). Before I put it on a
> > > timer, though, I'd like to ask others if I'd be courting trouble by
> > > doing so. I have no reason to think that the electronics would mind,
> > > but I'm concerned about pressure-cycling the seals in a way they may
> > > not have been intended for. Am I just being paranoid?
>
> > > David
>
> > Whilst it doesn't do seals etc much good to be constantly cycled (and
> > there is some thermal stress involved), it would make sense to switch
> > the machine on daily, and turn it off if not going to be used for many
> > hours, in the name of energy conservation. It may also be possible to
> > insulate the boiler, which can drastically reduce consumption.
> > Although my machines are large (23 litre boiler on the 3 group lever
> > at home, see below) I reduced it's idle power consumption by greater
> > than 50% after insulating the boiler.
>
> Should have mentioned: the Techno boilers are insulated from the
> factory. It still draws upwards of 2 KWH/day, even though it's only
> used for a few hours. That puts it ahead of most of the other
> appliances.
>
> Best,
> David

have it come on 1/2 hour before use, then off when you don't need it.

SAves $$ .



 
Date: 02 Apr 2007 12:23:55
From: DavidMLewis
Subject: Re: commercial machines on timers?
On Apr 2, 11:34 am, Danny <d...@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote:
> DavidMLewis wrote:
> > I've discovered that my Techno is one of the heavier contributors to
> > my electricity use, even though it's in its ECO mode much of the time
> > (both boilers allowed to go down to 70 C or so). Before I put it on a
> > timer, though, I'd like to ask others if I'd be courting trouble by
> > doing so. I have no reason to think that the electronics would mind,
> > but I'm concerned about pressure-cycling the seals in a way they may
> > not have been intended for. Am I just being paranoid?
>
> > David
>
> Whilst it doesn't do seals etc much good to be constantly cycled (and
> there is some thermal stress involved), it would make sense to switch
> the machine on daily, and turn it off if not going to be used for many
> hours, in the name of energy conservation. It may also be possible to
> insulate the boiler, which can drastically reduce consumption.
> Although my machines are large (23 litre boiler on the 3 group lever
> at home, see below) I reduced it's idle power consumption by greater
> than 50% after insulating the boiler.
>
Should have mentioned: the Techno boilers are insulated from the
factory. It still draws upwards of 2 KWH/day, even though it's only
used for a few hours. That puts it ahead of most of the other
appliances.

Best,
David



  
Date: 03 Apr 2007 21:05:33
From: Sheldon T. Hall - DO NOT MAIL
Subject: Re: commercial machines on timers?
On 2 Apr 2007 12:23:55 -0700, "DavidMLewis" <DavidMLewis@mac.com >
wrote:

>Should have mentioned: the Techno boilers are insulated from the
>factory. It still draws upwards of 2 KWH/day, even though it's only
>used for a few hours. That puts it ahead of most of the other
>appliances.

Around here, 2 KWH costs USD$0.30, I think. So you're spending, what,
about $9/month to keep it hot. If a decent, heavy-duty-enough timer
costs $35.00, and reduces the consumption by 33% (machine on 16, off 8
hours), it would pay for itself in a year.

Maybe.

This assumes that the machine doesn't use additional power to warm up
from cold (it will), reducing the theoretical savings, and that the
thermo-cycling doesn't cause some component to have a shortened life.
Even a minor repair will wipe out the money you save with the timer
scheme.

It also assumes the vaccuum-breaker valve doesn't stick open one
morning (it will) and steam off the wallpaper in your kitchen.

FWIW, my office lights for a theoretical 8-hour workday draw three
times the 2 KWH/day your espresso machine draws. $DIETY only knows
what the computers draw.

-Shel



  
Date: 03 Apr 2007 04:43:06
From: Danny
Subject: Re: commercial machines on timers?
DavidMLewis wrote:

> Should have mentioned: the Techno boilers are insulated from the
> factory. It still draws upwards of 2 KWH/day, even though it's only
> used for a few hours. That puts it ahead of most of the other
> appliances.
>
> Best,
> David
>

In the UK, that equates top around 16p/day before improving the
insulation. Have you felt the exterior of the insulation after the
machine has been used, to see how accurate David R's view of Techno
insulation is? You might be able to top it up. does this cost cover
24/7 use or just powering up when you want the machine?

16p/day - I'd be happy with that anyway - works out to a fiver a
month, or the cost of one and a bit speciality coffees from Costa or
*$ - the daily paper costs more :) Might seem extravagant, though,
if things are tight or you are producing your own power etc., in which
case, bring on the Aeropress and Zassenhaus :)


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
(apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)



  
Date: 03 Apr 2007 00:02:33
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: commercial machines on timers?


 
Date: 02 Apr 2007 19:34:24
From: Danny
Subject: Re: commercial machines on timers?
DavidMLewis wrote:
> I've discovered that my Techno is one of the heavier contributors to
> my electricity use, even though it's in its ECO mode much of the time
> (both boilers allowed to go down to 70 C or so). Before I put it on a
> timer, though, I'd like to ask others if I'd be courting trouble by
> doing so. I have no reason to think that the electronics would mind,
> but I'm concerned about pressure-cycling the seals in a way they may
> not have been intended for. Am I just being paranoid?
>
> David
>

Whilst it doesn't do seals etc much good to be constantly cycled (and
there is some thermal stress involved), it would make sense to switch
the machine on daily, and turn it off if not going to be used for many
hours, in the name of energy conservation. It may also be possible to
insulate the boiler, which can drastically reduce consumption.
Although my machines are large (23 litre boiler on the 3 group lever
at home, see below) I reduced it's idle power consumption by greater
than 50% after insulating the boiler.

There's also the small matter of espresso quality - machines that are
often switched off and then on again may not be at the correct
temperature for espresso making until a suitable period has elapsed,
so if you are likely to want to walk up to the machine at differing
times, I'd want to leave it on.

--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
(apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)



 
Date: 02 Apr 2007 18:30:05
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: commercial machines on timers?
Howdy David!
I know of two machines that are powered up by an electronic timer from 7 AM
to midnight & powered downed in between. This has been a daily occurrence
for 3+ years and show no signs of problems due to the cycling on/off. I've
told the owner that insulating the boilers would be more cost effective, but
there's a service contract that precludes modifications to the machines.

I've just enclosed my boiler with a fiberglass blanket, but I've not
compared the before & after power consumption - I insulated it to keep the
air temps down in the kitchen.
--
Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmon
www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - Guidelines for newbies.
www.tinyurl.com/37gwfr - I may have stuff available for sale here.

"DavidMLewis" <DavidMLewis@mac.com > wrote in message
news:1175537988.077187.281680@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> I've discovered that my Techno is one of the heavier contributors to
> my electricity use, even though it's in its ECO mode much of the time
> (both boilers allowed to go down to 70 C or so). Before I put it on a
> timer, though, I'd like to ask others if I'd be courting trouble by
> doing so. I have no reason to think that the electronics would mind,
> but I'm concerned about pressure-cycling the seals in a way they may
> not have been intended for. Am I just being paranoid?
>
> David
>