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Date: 26 Oct 2006 07:46:58
From: Pathos about Latte
Subject: comparing home made espresso to coffee shop
I see people comparing the cost of buying equipment and green beans,
etc. to buying coffee shop coffee. For instance, someone said something
like "I plan on breaking even in 2020." However, the home made product
is often MUCH better than the coffee shop product (unless you are lucky
enough to find a place that roasts their own beans). I'm an espresso
making novice and haven't yet branched into the world of roasting my
own beans, but I am still amazed at the difference my Mazzer mini and
Silvia make in making espresso compared to Starbucks. I don't like
Starbucks anymore. Plus, they overcharge like crazy!!!
My point is that you can't compare apples to oranges. It's worth the
money for a superior product that tastes a hell of a lot better than
many coffee shop products. Once you've had filet mignon, that skirt
steak just isn't going to taste as good as it used to. Is this just
cognitive dissonance talking (me trying to justify the cost of my
equipment)? I like to think it's not.

-Byron





 
Date: 27 Oct 2006 18:22:54
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: comparing home made espresso to coffee shop
On 26 Oct 2006 07:46:58 -0700, "Pathos about Latte"
<amasarai@yahoo.com > wrote:

> I see people comparing the cost of buying equipment and green beans,
>etc. to buying coffee shop coffee. For instance, someone said something
>like "I plan on breaking even in 2020." However, the home made product
>is often MUCH better than the coffee shop product (unless you are lucky
>enough to find a place that roasts their own beans). I'm an espresso
>making novice and haven't yet branched into the world of roasting my
>own beans, but I am still amazed at the difference my Mazzer mini and
>Silvia make in making espresso compared to Starbucks. I don't like
>Starbucks anymore. Plus, they overcharge like crazy!!!
> My point is that you can't compare apples to oranges. It's worth the
>money for a superior product that tastes a hell of a lot better than
>many coffee shop products. Once you've had filet mignon, that skirt
>steak just isn't going to taste as good as it used to. Is this just
>cognitive dissonance talking (me trying to justify the cost of my
>equipment)? I like to think it's not.
>
>-Byron

Not yet that far into my dotage that I ever expected to save money.
It's a long running joke with the missus. Each time she exclaims
"Wow!" to a brew, I figure it's time for a new toy... As long as I
hold the cost to around $300.00US a cup she's happy. <vbg >

The reason for home roasting and espresso is consistency.

All too often a shop that pulled a decent shot hires a new 'roaster'
or 'barista' and the quality goes to hell in a handbasket.

Had an interesting experience at Discovery Coffee in Victoria BC
recently. The obviously new barista dumped two shots before serving
and then replaced the one she'd served after tweaking the grinder yet
again. Yummmmm! An owner who cares.

Wish I could say the same for Caffe Fantastico where I received half
moon lungos. If the 'baristas' [ha!] are pulling crap, it's not worth
the hassle to send it back. Dreckkkkkkkkk! An owner who doesn't.

Sadly the latter is overwhelmingly the experience when purchasing
espresso in a shop.

Skirt steak properly prepared is delicious and filet mignon that isn't
gets taken home to the dog.


 
Date: 26 Oct 2006 16:57:59
From: razmoo
Subject: Re: comparing home made espresso to coffee shop
I know nothing about roasting.. but don't you have to, or normally let
the beans rest a few days after roasting? I dunno.. I thought thats
what people did.



  
Date: 26 Oct 2006 17:06:01
From: Jim
Subject: Re: comparing home made espresso to coffee shop
razmoo wrote:

> I know nothing about roasting.. but don't you have to, or normally let
> the beans rest a few days after roasting? I dunno.. I thought thats
> what people did.
>

It does taste better after a day or two of rest. But when you get lazy
and run out of beans, you either do without or you grind sooner than
optimum.


 
Date: 26 Oct 2006 16:42:00
From: Jim
Subject: Re: comparing home made espresso to coffee shop
Pathos about Latte wrote:

> I see people comparing the cost of buying equipment and green beans,
> etc. to buying coffee shop coffee. For instance, someone said something
> like "I plan on breaking even in 2020." However, the home made product
> is often MUCH better than the coffee shop product (unless you are lucky
> enough to find a place that roasts their own beans). I'm an espresso
> making novice and haven't yet branched into the world of roasting my
> own beans, but I am still amazed at the difference my Mazzer mini and
> Silvia make in making espresso compared to Starbucks. I don't like
> Starbucks anymore. Plus, they overcharge like crazy!!!
> My point is that you can't compare apples to oranges. It's worth the
> money for a superior product that tastes a hell of a lot better than
> many coffee shop products. Once you've had filet mignon, that skirt
> steak just isn't going to taste as good as it used to. Is this just
> cognitive dissonance talking (me trying to justify the cost of my
> equipment)? I like to think it's not.
>
> -Byron

I have no way of justifying the time and effort spent on home espresso
with "saving money" on the cups. And it's not even because I think I
can do it better -- that's doubtful at best. For me, the major factor
is the convenience of a good product AT HOME.

I live in Seattle. I don't claim to be a connoisseur, but I know that
there must be several better cups of espresso within minutes. But that
requires a walk or a drive! I want to do it in my kitchen. No lines,
no extra wait, no explaining what you want...

I'm still not quite sure how this desire to have a decent home product
ended up with me ordering green beans, roasting with a modified popcorn
popper, buying a decent machine and grinder... Top that off with the
hassle of actually making the espresso and cleaning the mess. Just so I
can pull a decent shot of espresso whenever I want, in the comfort of my
kitchen. ..but it did.

Now, if I could only convince my wife that it's "fun" to roast beans! I
just ran out again today, which means that tomorrow I'll be drinking
coffee from beans that were roasted the night before.







 
Date: 26 Oct 2006 16:29:13
From: razmoo
Subject: Re: comparing home made espresso to coffee shop

shall wrote:
> Roasting their own is nice, but no guaranty of a quality brew. They
> also have to source good green beans, know what they are doing when
> they roast, keep their roasted stock fresh and know what they are
> doing when they brew it. Too many shops have a roaster on the floor
> for show and then fail in the other areas. On the other hand, many
> shops buy their roasted beans elsewhere and serve a terrific brew.

I so agree with this.. there is a place that just opened up near where
I work that advertises we roast on site blah blah.. but their coffee is
pretty average.

I'd rather a cafe buy freshly roasted beans from a reputable roaster
and concentrate on making coffee rather than do both crap.



 
Date: 26 Oct 2006 16:30:51
From: Harry Moos
Subject: Re: comparing home made espresso to coffee shop
I don't buy the "saving money" line. It's a hobby for me, and I have the
time to do the whole routine now that I would not have had before I retired.
There is also a downside to "doing it yourself." Do you always drink coffee
for the coffee? Is it worth becoming a hermit to have great coffee? Poor
coffee shared with good friends in a pleasant cafe is not altogether bad.
So I drink in four days a week and out three days [on average]. I won't
live long enough to make that a good financial move, but I would do it again
for the sheer fun of it. I have four espresso machines, numerous drip
machines, a vacuum pot, a couple of French press pots, even a percolator and
an ibrek. My wife just shakes her head and brews a cup of tea.

"Pathos about Latte" <amasarai@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1161874018.304545.237890@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> I see people comparing the cost of buying equipment and green beans,
> etc. to buying coffee shop coffee.




 
Date: 26 Oct 2006 12:45:45
From: fixedgear
Subject: Re: comparing home made espresso to coffee shop
Moka- I totally agree with you. If you've got it down you can do really
well. I still think it's nice to walk into a shop sometimes, and be
able to get what you order. You know? I guess I went a little OT but
what the hell. I think I do a pretty damn good job at home too. Plus, I
fed my wife the whole line about saving money on coffee buy purchasing
my own machine!




Moka Java wrote:
> fixedgear wrote:
> > What you make at home with your setup is going to be better than a
> > large chain coffee shop but if you compare what you're making to
> > something like a Gimme or 9th St kind of shop you can easily justify
> > paying for a cup of coffee.
> > Then you're the skirt steak.
> >
>
> I actually think the drinks I make at home compare favorably to what
> Gimme and 9th St. serve, but I'm not an espresso novice. My Andreja and
> Mazzer Mini cost me about $1500. 2 cappas a day at a decent cafe would
> cost me at least $6. My cost for coffee, milk, electricity and cleaning
> supplies is probably less than .50 per drink (no, I haven;'t done a
> serious calculation) or $1 per day leaving a net savings of $5 per day.
> I travel a lot so let's say I make 2 cappas a day 300 days a year. My
> espresso equipment was paid for in a year.
>
> OTOH, I've given up roasting. I can have some of the best coffees in
> the world delivered to my home 2 or 3 days after roasting. At best, my
> home roasting produced inconsistent quality. For me, the time spent in
> small batch roasting is not worth the inconsistent quality I produce.
> There are others who post here who are much more accomplished home
> roasters and I salute them.
>
> R "will take a good rib steak over a fillet any day" TF



 
Date: 26 Oct 2006 12:31:51
From: CQ
Subject: Re: comparing home made espresso to coffee shop
Not only can home roasters/brewers get better espresso drinks, they do
save money. Not that saving money is my motivation, but it makes a good
justification for the equipment to the significant other.

A pound of very good green beans runs about $5.50 ( with shipping and ,
of course, buying much more than one pound at a time). After roasting I
end up with at least 363 grams of coffee ( up to 20% weight loss during
roasting). I always use 14 grams of coffee for a double espresso, so
that's 26 drinks per green pound, or 21 cents per drink. I ususally
make "short" cappuccinos with about 1/3rd a cup of milk, which is
about 10 cents worth of milk ( I use very expensive grass-fed milk). So
31 cents per drink. I don't use sugar or anything, so no added cost
there.

I'll ignore electricity costs and dish washing costs!

It'll cost me about $2.80 for the same drink at my local coffee house,
so I save $2.50. I drink at least one double espresso/espresso drink
every day, so I save over $900 a year, roasting and brewing my own.

This would quickly pay off some rather expensive equipment. In my case,
I'm cheap. I use a $14 popper to roast ( or sometimes a heatgun or a
pan on the grill, but I already owned those), an $80 Costco Solis
Maestro to grind and a $200 Gaggia to brew. So I "paid off" my
equipment in less than 4 months.

That was a number of years ago and all my equipment still works. Now
I'm running on pure "profit". I get to save money and my espresso is
MUCH better than any of the coffee shop espressos I can find in a 15
mile radius from my home in a major East-coast metropolitan area.



 
Date: 26 Oct 2006 09:23:35
From: PhilB
Subject: Re: comparing home made espresso to coffee shop
I don't have a coffee shop between my home and work, nor one anywhere
near that's open when I have friends round for a meal. If you're just
talking about buying the drinks, then the convenience and availability
is worth the money; if you're talking about the roasting/grinding of
the coffee beans, then I doubt that the pure finance will make it
worthwhile for most people - it's the control, and maybe just the fun
of it that would make people want to do it. Just like making your own
pasta.

Phil

On Oct 26, 3:46 pm, "Pathos about Latte" <amasa...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> I see people comparing the cost of buying equipment and green beans,
> etc. to buying coffee shop coffee. For instance, someone said something
> like "I plan on breaking even in 2020." However, the home made product
> is often MUCH better than the coffee shop product (unless you are lucky
> enough to find a place that roasts their own beans). I'm an espresso
> making novice and haven't yet branched into the world of roasting my
> own beans, but I am still amazed at the difference my Mazzer mini and
> Silvia make in making espresso compared to Starbucks. I don't like
> Starbucks anymore. Plus, they overcharge like crazy!!!
> My point is that you can't compare apples to oranges. It's worth the
> money for a superior product that tastes a hell of a lot better than
> many coffee shop products. Once you've had filet mignon, that skirt
> steak just isn't going to taste as good as it used to. Is this just
> cognitive dissonance talking (me trying to justify the cost of my
> equipment)? I like to think it's not.
>
> -Byron



 
Date: 26 Oct 2006 16:14:58
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: comparing home made espresso to coffee shop
On 26 Oct 2006 07:46:58 -0700, "Pathos about Latte"
<amasarai@yahoo.com > wrote:

> I see people comparing the cost of buying equipment and green beans,
>etc. to buying coffee shop coffee. For instance, someone said something
>like "I plan on breaking even in 2020." However, the home made product
>is often MUCH better than the coffee shop product (unless you are lucky
>enough to find a place that roasts their own beans).

Roasting their own is nice, but no guaranty of a quality brew. They
also have to source good green beans, know what they are doing when
they roast, keep their roasted stock fresh and know what they are
doing when they brew it. Too many shops have a roaster on the floor
for show and then fail in the other areas. On the other hand, many
shops buy their roasted beans elsewhere and serve a terrific brew.

shall


 
Date: 26 Oct 2006 09:14:11
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: comparing home made espresso to coffee shop
For most of us here on alt.coffee, the priority has never been to save
money on making coffee at home. It has always been a matter of
creating a quality product. If you buy a stainless steel BBQ it is not
to try to same money at home over buying Big Macs on the road.

Randy "a double cappa- that'll be $185" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com



"Pathos about Latte" <amasarai@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
> I see people comparing the cost of buying equipment and green beans,
>etc. to buying coffee shop coffee. For instance, someone said something
>like "I plan on breaking even in 2020." However, the home made product
>is often MUCH better than the coffee shop product (unless you are lucky
>enough to find a place that roasts their own beans). I'm an espresso
>making novice and haven't yet branched into the world of roasting my
>own beans, but I am still amazed at the difference my Mazzer mini and
>Silvia make in making espresso compared to Starbucks. I don't like
>Starbucks anymore. Plus, they overcharge like crazy!!!
> My point is that you can't compare apples to oranges. It's worth the
>money for a superior product that tastes a hell of a lot better than
>many coffee shop products. Once you've had filet mignon, that skirt
>steak just isn't going to taste as good as it used to. Is this just
>cognitive dissonance talking (me trying to justify the cost of my
>equipment)? I like to think it's not.
>
>-Byron


  
Date: 26 Oct 2006 19:59:46
From: Bolo
Subject: Re: comparing home made espresso to coffee shop
Randy G. wrote:
> For most of us here on alt.coffee, the priority has never been to save
> money on making coffee at home. It has always been a matter of
> creating a quality product. If you buy a stainless steel BBQ it is not
> to try to same money at home over buying Big Macs on the road.
>
> Randy "a double cappa- that'll be $185" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>
>
> "Pathos about Latte" <amasarai@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I see people comparing the cost of buying equipment and green beans,
>> etc. to buying coffee shop coffee. For instance, someone said something
>> like "I plan on breaking even in 2020." However, the home made product
>> is often MUCH better than the coffee shop product (unless you are lucky
>> enough to find a place that roasts their own beans). I'm an espresso
>> making novice and haven't yet branched into the world of roasting my
>> own beans, but I am still amazed at the difference my Mazzer mini and
>> Silvia make in making espresso compared to Starbucks. I don't like
>> Starbucks anymore. Plus, they overcharge like crazy!!!
>> My point is that you can't compare apples to oranges. It's worth the
>> money for a superior product that tastes a hell of a lot better than
>> many coffee shop products. Once you've had filet mignon, that skirt
>> steak just isn't going to taste as good as it used to. Is this just
>> cognitive dissonance talking (me trying to justify the cost of my
>> equipment)? I like to think it's not.
>>
>> -Byron

Agreed. I do not make home brewed beer to save $$ (although I do) and I
certainly do not home roast or make espresso at home to save $$, either.
It is all about the passion!!


  
Date: 27 Oct 2006 11:03:36
From: Brent
Subject: Re: comparing home made espresso to coffee shop
For sure - the best way we could have saved money on coffee was to have
stuck with buying it when we went out :)

Problem is now - we have a serious amount of toys, and still go out for
coffee etc

Brent

> For most of us here on alt.coffee, the priority has never been to save
> money on making coffee at home. It has always been a matter of
> creating a quality product. If you buy a stainless steel BBQ it is not
> to try to same money at home over buying Big Macs on the road.
>
> Randy "a double cappa- that'll be $185" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>
>
>>
>> I see people comparing the cost of buying equipment and green beans,
>>etc. to buying coffee shop coffee. For instance, someone said something
>>like "I plan on breaking even in 2020." However, the home made product
>>is often MUCH better than the coffee shop product (unless you are lucky
>>enough to find a place that roasts their own beans). I'm an espresso
>>making novice and haven't yet branched into the world of roasting my
>>own beans, but I am still amazed at the difference my Mazzer mini and
>>Silvia make in making espresso compared to Starbucks. I don't like
>>Starbucks anymore. Plus, they overcharge like crazy!!!
>> My point is that you can't compare apples to oranges. It's worth the
>>money for a superior product that tastes a hell of a lot better than
>>many coffee shop products. Once you've had filet mignon, that skirt
>>steak just isn't going to taste as good as it used to. Is this just
>>cognitive dissonance talking (me trying to justify the cost of my
>>equipment)? I like to think it's not.
>>
>>-Byron




 
Date: 26 Oct 2006 08:22:53
From: fixedgear
Subject: Re: comparing home made espresso to coffee shop
What you make at home with your setup is going to be better than a
large chain coffee shop but if you compare what you're making to
something like a Gimme or 9th St kind of shop you can easily justify
paying for a cup of coffee.
Then you're the skirt steak.



  
Date: 26 Oct 2006 15:22:41
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: comparing home made espresso to coffee shop
fixedgear wrote:
> What you make at home with your setup is going to be better than a
> large chain coffee shop but if you compare what you're making to
> something like a Gimme or 9th St kind of shop you can easily justify
> paying for a cup of coffee.
> Then you're the skirt steak.
>

I actually think the drinks I make at home compare favorably to what
Gimme and 9th St. serve, but I'm not an espresso novice. My Andreja and
Mazzer Mini cost me about $1500. 2 cappas a day at a decent cafe would
cost me at least $6. My cost for coffee, milk, electricity and cleaning
supplies is probably less than .50 per drink (no, I haven;'t done a
serious calculation) or $1 per day leaving a net savings of $5 per day.
I travel a lot so let's say I make 2 cappas a day 300 days a year. My
espresso equipment was paid for in a year.

OTOH, I've given up roasting. I can have some of the best coffees in
the world delivered to my home 2 or 3 days after roasting. At best, my
home roasting produced inconsistent quality. For me, the time spent in
small batch roasting is not worth the inconsistent quality I produce.
There are others who post here who are much more accomplished home
roasters and I salute them.

R "will take a good rib steak over a fillet any day" TF