coffee-forum.net
Promoting coffee discussion.

Main
Date: 21 Sep 2006 07:38:46
From:
Subject: gaggia repair?
Hi

I just bought an old-style gaggia baby on ebay:

http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=baby001uc3.jpg

The seller claimed it was never used, even though it is
about 20-25 yrs old. This may be true, I'm not sure,
but it does *look* like it is unused.

Unfortunately the pump seems to be dead. It makes lots of
noise, but it doesn't suck any water. Not an ounce.
I disconnected it from the boiler, and still nothing.
Any advice on what to do next?

Given the pumps dormant history I am hopeful it can be repaired.
It is an all-metal ULKA, cylindrical in shape and about 7-inches
long with the fittings. Here is a picture:

http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=baby021tk7.jpg

I got out a wrench with the idea of opening it up ... I thought I could
unscrew one or both of the ends and separate it from the big
cylinder housing. But this seems to only spin the piston inside.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I might open this up?

Thanks!
John





 
Date: 18 Oct 2006 11:37:57
From:
Subject: Re: gaggia repair? update
Well I eventually figured out how to open up the pump, turns out
that there are special "snap ring" pliers that make the job easy.
Once opened up I couldn't really find anything wrong, except
for the remnant of an old thin washer. So I cleaned things
up a bit and put it back together. As Harry hinted at,
putting it back to gether was the hardest part. I ended up
using a C-clamp to compress the ends together.
And the big surprise -- now it works! If you have a dead pump
and have the inclination, I say go ahead open it up. At least
in my case it was easy to fix, so easy that I'm not even sure
how I did it!

Here is a picture of the pump guts:

http://img60.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pump1tv6.jpg

Next step is a descale, I have some Scale Kleen on order...

John



 
Date: 23 Sep 2006 18:59:05
From:
Subject: Re: gaggia repair?

daveb wrote:
> The pump is NOT fixable.
>
> and the new ones ARE compatible. But that is probably just the
> beginning of your problems. [corrosion]
>
> and other than pumps -- there are really no parts available for a unit
> this old.
>

Thanks Dave, I will go ahead and order a replacement pump.
I'll be back to ask for more help if there are other problems too.

John



 
Date: 23 Sep 2006 18:56:12
From:
Subject: Re: gaggia repair?

Danny wrote:
> jb130@mail.gatech.edu wrote:
> > I turned on the machine, waited 5 mins, opened the steam valve,
> > then turned on the pump. At that point I was hoping to get water
> > out of the stem valve, but instead got nothing. That was when I peeked
> > inside the reservoir and saw that there was no water moving from the
> > reservoir to the pump. Maybe I jumped too soon to the conclusion
> > that the pump is bad?
> >
> > John
> >
>
> Wrong. You can damage the machine this way. You must prime as soon
> as you switch the machine on. I have a 1908's manual in front of me.
> It says you should switch the machine on, ensure resorvoir is full
> and the hoses not kinked and then prime by switching to hot water mode
> and drawing one cup through the machine, using the steam/water
> switches. The model I have is different to yours, so I can't explain
> the switches.
>
> Opening the steam valve won't turn on the pump. If you don't have a
> hot water switch or toggle, then, starting from cold, turn machine on
> and press the brew switch until water exits the spouts. I don't know
> if your model can dispense water through the steam nozzle. Your
> picture would suggest not. You should see the pump light illuminate
> when priming/brewing?
>

Ouch, I hope I didn't do any damage. I just followed the instructions
blindly,
but now that I think about it I was heating an empty boiler for 5
minutes.
I won't know the extent of the damage until I get some water into it.

Thanks, Danny, for pointing out how I should have primed. Next time
I will ask questions first. Just for the record I have no hot water
dispenser.
And yes, I see the pump light illuminate when I activate the pump
light.

John



 
Date: 23 Sep 2006 18:51:14
From:
Subject: Re: gaggia repair?

Ed Needham wrote:
> I think the machines, when they are new, come with a little water already in
> the pump to give at least a little suction, but a machine that has been
> sitting for a long time might need a little more help. How about squirting
> water into the hose under a little pressure till it comes out the steam
> wand? A bulb syringe or even a hose hooked up to the water line might do
> it. I'd bet that the pump is still good and just needs a little water to
> get it pumping. If that doesn't work, then the pump can be officially
> declared dead and autopsies can begin.
>

It was worth a shot, I tried a big bulb syringe, and I even tried
blowing
hard into the inlet tube, but I couldn't get a drop into the pump.
The only effect was to get a small amount of black water coming
out of the inlet (wrong direction!). So I think it is time to move on
and
order a replacement. Although I still might do an autopsy just for
kicks...

Thanks,
John



  
Date: 23 Sep 2006 22:16:47
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: gaggia repair?
Mmmmmm....black water...sounds ominous. Definitely not a good thing. Time
to start tearing things apart.
--
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

<jb130@mail.gatech.edu > wrote in message
news:1159062674.154696.227190@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Ed Needham wrote:
<SNIP >I'd bet that the pump is still good and just needs a little water to
>> get it pumping. If that doesn't work, then the pump can be officially
>> declared dead and autopsies can begin.
>>
>
> It was worth a shot, I tried a big bulb syringe, and I even tried
> blowing
> hard into the inlet tube, but I couldn't get a drop into the pump.
> The only effect was to get a small amount of black water coming
> out of the inlet (wrong direction!). So I think it is time to move on
> and
> order a replacement. Although I still might do an autopsy just for
> kicks...
>
> Thanks,
> John
>





 
Date: 22 Sep 2006 14:35:05
From: daveb
Subject: Re: gaggia repair?
The pump is NOT fixable.

and the new ones ARE compatible. But that is probably just the
beginning of your problems. [corrosion]

and other than pumps -- there are really no parts available for a unit
this old.




Dave
Saeco / Gaggia repair SE
118


> if it is broken I can't break it any more. Also I worry about
> compatibility
> of a new pump with this old machine. And since the old pump has
> seen little-to-no use, I was hoping it was fixable.
>
> Do you happen to remember how you opened up the pump in the
> first place? I seem to remember coming across an old alt.coffee
> posting where someone had said it was possible to repair this
> type of pump, but it required "ingenuity and patience" ... not really
> sure what that means!
>
> John
>



 
Date: 22 Sep 2006 07:06:13
From:
Subject: Re: gaggia repair?

Ed Needham wrote:
> The pump needs to be primed before it creates the vacuum to pull the water
> through. Someone else can help with the process on a Baby.

I would be very happy if it were just an issue of priming. I am new to
Gaggia's so this is a possibility. I followed the priming instructions
for
one of the newer Baby's, but maybe the procedure is different for this
model?
I turned on the machine, waited 5 mins, opened the steam valve,
then turned on the pump. At that point I was hoping to get water
out of the stem valve, but instead got nothing. That was when I peeked
inside the reservoir and saw that there was no water moving from the
reservoir to the pump. Maybe I jumped too soon to the conclusion
that the pump is bad?

John



  
Date: 22 Sep 2006 18:22:54
From: Danny
Subject: Re: gaggia repair?
jb130@mail.gatech.edu wrote:
> Ed Needham wrote:
>
>>The pump needs to be primed before it creates the vacuum to pull the water
>>through. Someone else can help with the process on a Baby.
>
>
> I would be very happy if it were just an issue of priming. I am new to
> Gaggia's so this is a possibility. I followed the priming instructions
> for
> one of the newer Baby's, but maybe the procedure is different for this
> model?
> I turned on the machine, waited 5 mins, opened the steam valve,
> then turned on the pump. At that point I was hoping to get water
> out of the stem valve, but instead got nothing. That was when I peeked
> inside the reservoir and saw that there was no water moving from the
> reservoir to the pump. Maybe I jumped too soon to the conclusion
> that the pump is bad?
>
> John
>

Wrong. You can damage the machine this way. You must prime as soon
as you switch the machine on. I have a 1908's manual in front of me.
It says you should switch the machine on, ensure resorvoir is full
and the hoses not kinked and then prime by switching to hot water mode
and drawing one cup through the machine, using the steam/water
switches. The model I have is different to yours, so I can't explain
the switches.

Opening the steam valve won't turn on the pump. If you don't have a
hot water switch or toggle, then, starting from cold, turn machine on
and press the brew switch until water exits the spouts. I don't know
if your model can dispense water through the steam nozzle. Your
picture would suggest not. You should see the pump light illuminate
when priming/brewing?



--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)



   
Date: 22 Sep 2006 19:15:40
From: Danny
Subject: Re: gaggia repair?
Danny wrote:

> Wrong. You can damage the machine this way. You must prime as soon as
> you switch the machine on. I have a 1908's manual in front of me

Oops - should be 1980's manual....


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)



  
Date: 22 Sep 2006 11:29:52
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: gaggia repair?
I think the machines, when they are new, come with a little water already in
the pump to give at least a little suction, but a machine that has been
sitting for a long time might need a little more help. How about squirting
water into the hose under a little pressure till it comes out the steam
wand? A bulb syringe or even a hose hooked up to the water line might do
it. I'd bet that the pump is still good and just needs a little water to
get it pumping. If that doesn't work, then the pump can be officially
declared dead and autopsies can begin.
--
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

<jb130@mail.gatech.edu > wrote in message
news:1158933973.192312.291120@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Ed Needham wrote:
>> The pump needs to be primed before it creates the vacuum to pull the
>> water
>> through. Someone else can help with the process on a Baby.
>
> I would be very happy if it were just an issue of priming. I am new to
> Gaggia's so this is a possibility.
<SNIP >




 
Date: 22 Sep 2006 07:01:45
From:
Subject: Re: gaggia repair?
Harry Moos wrote:
> It certainly looks unused. Why not just invest in a new pump? I took one
> apart once but could never get it to stay together after that; I think that
> it had been assembled as a press fit.

Hi Harry, that's a good question. Maybe I should just get a new pump.
But first I thought there would be no harm in trying to fix the old one
...
if it is broken I can't break it any more. Also I worry about
compatibility
of a new pump with this old machine. And since the old pump has
seen little-to-no use, I was hoping it was fixable.

Do you happen to remember how you opened up the pump in the
first place? I seem to remember coming across an old alt.coffee
posting where someone had said it was possible to repair this
type of pump, but it required "ingenuity and patience" ... not really
sure what that means!

John

>
> <jb130@mail.gatech.edu> wrote in message
> news:1158849525.946899.270990@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Hi
> >
> > I just bought an old-style gaggia baby on ebay:
> >
> > http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=baby001uc3.jpg
> >
> > The seller claimed it was never used, even though it is
> > about 20-25 yrs old. This may be true, I'm not sure,
> > but it does *look* like it is unused.



 
Date: 22 Sep 2006 06:56:35
From:
Subject: Re: gaggia repair?

Robert Harmon wrote:
> Howdy John,
> That's an awesome Baby, love the tangerine orange paint! You must be a Texas
> Longhorns fan?

I hadn't noticed before, but you are right, the orange is a lot like
Texas Orange.
The machine does look nice, I just hope I can get it working ...

> Although it's not the same model as yours, this'll get you started:
> http://www.myschiffman.org/cg/rebuild.html. I used to repair pumps but now I
> just replace them as needed; they're too cheap to hassle with. Check out
> parts guru: https://www.shop.partsguru.com/quickSearch.hg

Thanks for the pointer, Robert. I had seen the first link, it was part
of my
inspiration for wanting to fix the pump in the first place. But if
that doesn't
work out I will move onto the second link and look for a replacement
pump.
Part of the reason I am hesitating is because a lot of the replacement
pumps seems to be small, and square, and made in part of plastic,
and with a different number of (and type of) electrical connectors,
and so I worry about compatibility with this particular machine.

John



 
Date: 21 Sep 2006 19:38:52
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: gaggia repair?
The pump needs to be primed before it creates the vacuum to pull the water
through. Someone else can help with the process on a Baby.
--
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

<jb130@mail.gatech.edu > wrote in message
news:1158849525.946899.270990@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi
>
> I just bought an old-style gaggia baby on ebay:
>
> http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=baby001uc3.jpg
>
> The seller claimed it was never used, even though it is
> about 20-25 yrs old. This may be true, I'm not sure,
> but it does *look* like it is unused.
>
> Unfortunately the pump seems to be dead. It makes lots of
> noise, but it doesn't suck any water. Not an ounce.
> I disconnected it from the boiler, and still nothing.
> Any advice on what to do next?
<SNIP >




 
Date: 21 Sep 2006 10:36:09
From: Harry Moos
Subject: Re: gaggia repair?
It certainly looks unused. Why not just invest in a new pump? I took one
apart once but could never get it to stay together after that; I think that
it had been assembled as a press fit.

<jb130@mail.gatech.edu > wrote in message
news:1158849525.946899.270990@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi
>
> I just bought an old-style gaggia baby on ebay:
>
> http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=baby001uc3.jpg
>
> The seller claimed it was never used, even though it is
> about 20-25 yrs old. This may be true, I'm not sure,
> but it does *look* like it is unused.




 
Date: 21 Sep 2006 15:33:35
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: gaggia repair?
Howdy John,
That's an awesome Baby, love the tangerine orange paint! You must be a Texas
Longhorns fan?

Although it's not the same model as yours, this'll get you started:
http://www.myschiffman.org/cg/rebuild.html. I used to repair pumps but now I
just replace them as needed; they're too cheap to hassle with. Check out
parts guru: https://www.shop.partsguru.com/quickSearch.hg
--
Robert (Good luck!) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/psfob
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r


<jb130@mail.gatech.edu > wrote in message
news:1158849525.946899.270990@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi
>
> I just bought an old-style gaggia baby on ebay:
>
> http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=baby001uc3.jpg
>
> The seller claimed it was never used, even though it is
> about 20-25 yrs old. This may be true, I'm not sure,
> but it does *look* like it is unused.
>
> Unfortunately the pump seems to be dead. It makes lots of
> noise, but it doesn't suck any water. Not an ounce.
> I disconnected it from the boiler, and still nothing.
> Any advice on what to do next?
>
> Given the pumps dormant history I am hopeful it can be repaired.
> It is an all-metal ULKA, cylindrical in shape and about 7-inches
> long with the fittings. Here is a picture:
>
> http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=baby021tk7.jpg
>
> I got out a wrench with the idea of opening it up ... I thought I could
> unscrew one or both of the ends and separate it from the big
> cylinder housing. But this seems to only spin the piston inside.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions on how I might open this up?
>
> Thanks!
> John
>