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Date: 20 Feb 2007 10:47:57
From: Randy G.
Subject: review of KN-8828P Programmable roaster available.
I just posted my personal review of the Hottop KN-8828P programmable
coffee roaster on my website. The review is linked on the main page-
right on top of the right-hand column.

Randy "what more can I say?" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com






 
Date: 21 Feb 2007 01:05:43
From: CrackAddict
Subject: Re: review of KN-8828P Programmable roaster available.
On Feb 20, 6:47 pm, Randy G. <f...@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote:
> I just posted my personal review of the Hottop KN-8828P programmable
> coffee roaster on my website. The review is linked on the main page-
> right on top of the right-hand column.
>
> The KN-8828P upgrade kit currently is priced at just under $500.


Nice review - many thanks. Can you confirm that the machine "holds"
program settings when unplugged?

While I understand the programming is attractive to some, I would love
to have a Hottop that had just two adjustments. Time and temperature.
Just give me a rotating knob for temp and I will do the rest, thanks
very much. Reminds me of the specialty roaster I worked with for a few
days who has two Diedrich roasters - one with the fancy programmable
interface and one without. Most of the roasting was done on the simple
machine and when we used the fancy one it was in manual mode. "Worst
investment I ever made" were his words.

Reading your programming review immediately reminded me of the iRoast
(iRoar) that I bought to replace my Precision. Repetitive pushing of
small buttons at waist level while squinting at an LCD panel... I
tried to give it away but no one else was as dumb as me. I use it at a
holiday home now a few times a year.

Here in the UK, the "upgrade" is going to be about GBP600+ - or around
US$1200. I guess with twice the voltage, we have to pay twice as
much :-) So not a very attractive option when a new "basic" Hottop is
GBP340 (US$680).

I really hope Hottop reconsiders their pricing for 230/240V upgrades
or it will be a very small ket indeed. Even if I could afford it, I
would refuse to buy with that "ripoff Britain" price difference.

You can read a mini-review here

www.hasblog.co.uk




  
Date: 21 Feb 2007 07:15:52
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: review of KN-8828P Programmable roaster available.
"CrackAddict" <smppix@gmail.com > wrote:


>
>Nice review - many thanks. Can you confirm that the machine "holds"
>program settings when unplugged?
>
Yes, it keeps all programming changes indefinitely.

>While I understand the programming is attractive to some, I would love
>to have a Hottop that had just two adjustments. Time and temperature.
>Just give me a rotating knob for temp and I will do the rest, thanks
>very much.
>
The "P" has the ability to adjust temperature, but at a cost of having
all the other additional electronics and programming and at a cost $$.

It is easy to hack the hottop- the control panel can be disconnected
and the cable can be easily jumpered to operate all functions
including cooling fans, drum rotation, fan, ejection, and heating
element. A simple set of toggle switches would do it. Just add a
digital temperature readout and maybe a control for the fan speed.
Everything is triggered by 12 volts from there so it is safe as well.

The one thing you lose is any safety control, so if you walk off and
forget it will ignite the beans possibly destroying the roaster.. So
don't do it... there, I'm safe.


>Reading your programming review immediately reminded me of the iRoast
>(iRoar) that I bought to replace my Precision. Repetitive pushing of
>small buttons at waist level while squinting at an LCD panel... I
>tried to give it away but no one else was as dumb as me. I use it at a
>holiday home now a few times a year.
>
I like the coffee the iRoast2 makes, but the programming is pretty
horrible as I mentioned in my review.

>Here in the UK, the "upgrade" is going to be about GBP600+ - or around
>US$1200.
>
OUCH!


Randy "doesn't fit my wallet either" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




  
Date: 21 Feb 2007 21:26:28
From: yoma
Subject: Re: review of KN-8828P Programmable roaster available.
CrackAddict wrote:
>
> While I understand the programming is attractive to some, I would love
> to have a Hottop that had just two adjustments. Time and temperature.
> Just give me a rotating knob for temp and I will do the rest, thanks
> very much. Reminds me of the specialty roaster I worked with for a few
> days who has two Diedrich roasters - one with the fancy programmable
> interface and one without. Most of the roasting was done on the simple
> machine and when we used the fancy one it was in manual mode. "Worst
> investment I ever made" were his words.

I just built a similar gadget for my digital model.

A dial for the heater, a dial for the fan.
A couple of LED indicators for heater and fan status.

Cost is about $15 in electronic components.
I assembled mine on a breadboard (no soldering).

It may not be sophisticated, but does provide manual control / override
of a Hottop.




   
Date: 22 Feb 2007 01:00:58
From: yoma
Subject: Re: review of KN-8828P Programmable roaster available.
yoma wrote:
>
> I just built a similar gadget for my digital model.
>
> A dial for the heater, a dial for the fan.
> A couple of LED indicators for heater and fan status.
>
> Cost is about $15 in electronic components.
> I assembled mine on a breadboard (no soldering).
>
> It may not be sophisticated, but does provide manual control / override
> of a Hottop.

More details can be found here...
http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1172066309/0#0




 
Date: 21 Feb 2007 08:07:58
From: Brewer Bob
Subject: Re: review of KN-8828P Programmable roaster available.


Randy G. wrote:

>I just posted my personal review of the Hottop KN-8828P programmable
>coffee roaster on my website. The review is linked on the main page-
>right on top of the right-hand column.
>
> Randy "what more can I say?" G.
>http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>
Randy, I just did a quick scan of your review. It looks good overall. I got my Hottop in May of '03 so, I think I have "some" of the improvements but, nothing digital . I still rely on sight, smell and sound with good results maxxing the machine out to #7 and a timer along with it. Recently, my fan gave up the ghost also after 3 years and ~ 300lbs of beans. I ordered the fan assembly from Hottop but, found a cheaper more environmentally friendly alternative. Although you would need to "tin the wires" and attach either an existing or new female 2 hole spade connector, you can order the same fan Hottop uses here:

http://tinyurl.com/2cqh5a

it's also important to remember that you need to look beyond dimensions being that this fan is 80 CFM, 12 Volts, with an amperage of .33 A . The current fan lists .38 Amps but, that could be lab peak. Anyways, the above link will give you the fan you need sans the spade connector which you can salvage from the old one.

Other than that, I concur that the Hottop is a solid value and takes a licking an keeps on ticking.

Brewer Bob


 
Date: 20 Feb 2007 20:50:40
From: Mldhab
Subject: Re: review of KN-8828P Programmable roaster available.
Randy,

Impressive writeup. As usual.

Mike



 
Date: 20 Feb 2007 18:35:37
From: daveb
Subject: Re: review of KN-8828P Programmable roaster available.
On Feb 20, 4:08 pm, jim schulman <jim_schul...@ameritech.net > wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 10:47:57 -0800, Randy G. <f...@DESPAMMOcncnet.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I just posted my personal review of the Hottop KN-8828P programmable
> >coffee roaster on my website. The review is linked on the main page-
> >right on top of the right-hand column.
>
> > Randy "what more can I say?" G.
> >http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
> Nice review.
>
> I asked ty Davis two years ago how much a properly built and
> controlled home roaster, akin in quality to a sample roaster, but
> lighter duty, would sell for so the manufacturers could make a decent
> profit. He said around $1000 at these volumes. I didn't believe him,
> but it seems he was right.

If some very sharp Taiwanese can produce this for $1000.00,
getting anything more for less is IMHO, unlikely.


dave



  
Date: 21 Feb 2007 14:52:42
From: yoma
Subject: Re: review of KN-8828P Programmable roaster available.
daveb wrote:
> On Feb 20, 4:08 pm, jim schulman <jim_schul...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 10:47:57 -0800, Randy G. <f...@DESPAMMOcncnet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I just posted my personal review of the Hottop KN-8828P programmable
>>> coffee roaster on my website. The review is linked on the main page-
>>> right on top of the right-hand column.
>>> Randy "what more can I say?" G.
>>> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>> Nice review.
>>
>> I asked ty Davis two years ago how much a properly built and
>> controlled home roaster, akin in quality to a sample roaster, but
>> lighter duty, would sell for so the manufacturers could make a decent
>> profit. He said around $1000 at these volumes. I didn't believe him,
>> but it seems he was right.
>
> If some very sharp Taiwanese can produce this for $1000.00,
> getting anything more for less is IMHO, unlikely.


It may be (may have been) possible to 'shift' some of the cost by
utilitising a very simple internal controller with a UART (Serial/USB)
interface to connect to a PC/Notebook.

The user-interface to program/control/log roasts would be on the PC.

Since many folk already own a computer this would save on the cost of
the sophisticated programmable panel, etc.

Of course this wouldn't be a stand-alone programmable model.


   
Date: 21 Feb 2007 05:18:17
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: review of KN-8828P Programmable roaster available.
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 14:52:42 +1100, yoma <yoma@yoma.net.au > wrote:

>It may be (may have been) possible to 'shift' some of the cost by
>utilitising a very simple internal controller with a UART (Serial/USB)
>interface to connect to a PC/Notebook.
>
>The user-interface to program/control/log roasts would be on the PC.
>
>Since many folk already own a computer this would save on the cost of
>the sophisticated programmable panel, etc.
>
>Of course this wouldn't be a stand-alone programmable model.

That's already been done. Jeffrey Pawlan has been selling his Hottop
controller system for about two years.

shall


    
Date: 20 Feb 2007 21:41:42
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: review of KN-8828P Programmable roaster available.
shall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:

>On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 14:52:42 +1100, yoma <yoma@yoma.net.au> wrote:

>>Of course this wouldn't be a stand-alone programmable model.

>
>That's already been done. Jeffrey Pawlan has been selling his Hottop
>controller system for about two years.
>
>shall

Jeffrey's roaster is quite rekable. It's level of control over the
roast is really only limited by the Hottop's ability to create (and
lose) heat and your imagination. He has built it to standards that
make it about as close to a lab-quality roasting appliance as you are
likely to see for its size. Unfortunately, the price puts it out of
reach of most. A while back I mentioned to him that he should have
created a lower-priced kit for we mortals but he wasn't interested-
can't say that I blame him.

It will be interesting to see how sales go on the Hottop (not that I
am privy to any such business details). They have been talking about a
small air roaster, but with the R+D they have spent putting together
the new KN-8828P, I would like to see them apply what they have
learned into a 1 to 1.5 pound-capacity roaster. If my limited
electrical knowledge holds water (insulated, of course) the current
model uses a 750 watt heating element, so they could, with proper
insulation, easily go to 1000-1200 watts and still run off household
current...

Feel free to drop a bug in their ear at the show! ;-)

Randy "figurative entomologist" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




     
Date: 21 Feb 2007 17:06:42
From: yoma
Subject: Re: review of KN-8828P Programmable roaster available.
Randy G. wrote:
>
> Jeffrey's roaster is quite rekable. It's level of control over the
> roast is really only limited by the Hottop's ability to create (and
> lose) heat and your imagination. He has built it to standards that
> make it about as close to a lab-quality roasting appliance as you are
> likely to see for its size. Unfortunately, the price puts it out of
> reach of most. A while back I mentioned to him that he should have
> created a lower-priced kit for we mortals but he wasn't interested-
> can't say that I blame him.

I estimate the parts for a 'dumb' low price controller on the end of a
USB or Serial connector would be in the order of $50 (with a st PC at
the other end of course). If one was available as an upgrade for my
digital model, I'd buy it now! Not to mention this would permit
datalogging of profiles, which I don't think the new model does.

Maybe I can make it myself (to share) - which is another great thing
about the hottop - is you can do this kind of stuff with it. As for the
roasting software, that might need a bit of working out.


> It will be interesting to see how sales go on the Hottop (not that I
> am privy to any such business details). They have been talking about a
> small air roaster, but with the R+D they have spent putting together
> the new KN-8828P, I would like to see them apply what they have
> learned into a 1 to 1.5 pound-capacity roaster. If my limited
> electrical knowledge holds water (insulated, of course) the current
> model uses a 750 watt heating element, so they could, with proper
> insulation, easily go to 1000-1200 watts and still run off household
> current...
>
> Feel free to drop a bug in their ear at the show! ;-)
>
> Randy "figurative entomologist" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>


 
Date: 20 Feb 2007 16:59:28
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: review of KN-8828P Programmable roaster available.

"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote in message
news:mdgmt216sq357i1n4cnh8dd7p3t0r0ojct@4ax.com...
>I just posted my personal review of the Hottop KN-8828P programmable
> coffee roaster on my website. The review is linked on the main page-
> right on top of the right-hand column.
>
> Randy "what more can I say?" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>

Thanks for the great review Randy! {;-)
Cheers!
Craigo.



 
Date: 20 Feb 2007 15:08:40
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: review of KN-8828P Programmable roaster available.
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 10:47:57 -0800, Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com >
wrote:

>I just posted my personal review of the Hottop KN-8828P programmable
>coffee roaster on my website. The review is linked on the main page-
>right on top of the right-hand column.
>
> Randy "what more can I say?" G.
>http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>

Nice review.

I asked ty Davis two years ago how much a properly built and
controlled home roaster, akin in quality to a sample roaster, but
lighter duty, would sell for so the manufacturers could make a decent
profit. He said around $1000 at these volumes. I didn't believe him,
but it seems he was right.


  
Date: 20 Feb 2007 23:41:03
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: review of KN-8828P Programmable roaster available.
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:08:40 -0600, jim schulman
<jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote:

>On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 10:47:57 -0800, Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com>
>wrote:
>
>>I just posted my personal review of the Hottop KN-8828P programmable
>>coffee roaster on my website. The review is linked on the main page-
>>right on top of the right-hand column.
>>
>> Randy "what more can I say?" G.
>>http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>>
>>
>
>Nice review.
>
>I asked ty Davis two years ago how much a properly built and
>controlled home roaster, akin in quality to a sample roaster, but
>lighter duty, would sell for so the manufacturers could make a decent
>profit. He said around $1000 at these volumes. I didn't believe him,
>but it seems he was right.

ty Curtis meet Terry Davis. :-)

shall


   
Date: 20 Feb 2007 20:02:38
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: review of KN-8828P Programmable roaster available.
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 23:41:03 GMT, shall
<mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:

>>I asked ty Davis two years ago how much a properly built and
>>controlled home roaster, akin in quality to a sample roaster, but
>>lighter duty, would sell for so the manufacturers could make a decent
>>profit. He said around $1000 at these volumes. I didn't believe him,
>>but it seems he was right.
>
>ty Curtis meet Terry Davis. :-)

From now on I'm referring to my notes before post; it was ty Davis.


    
Date: 21 Feb 2007 03:35:45
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: review of KN-8828P Programmable roaster available.
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 20:02:38 -0600, jim schulman
<jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote:

>On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 23:41:03 GMT, shall
><mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>>I asked ty Davis two years ago how much a properly built and
>>>controlled home roaster, akin in quality to a sample roaster, but
>>>lighter duty, would sell for so the manufacturers could make a decent
>>>profit. He said around $1000 at these volumes. I didn't believe him,
>>>but it seems he was right.
>>
>>ty Curtis meet Terry Davis. :-)
>
>From now on I'm referring to my notes before post; it was ty Davis.

Errrr.....

shall


     
Date: 20 Feb 2007 21:43:47
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: review of KN-8828P Programmable roaster available.
"shall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:3gfnt2po7nb3n2sj68krb85lcfnet7omb4@4ax.com...
> >>
>>>>I asked ty Davis two years ago how much a properly built and
>>>>controlled home roaster, akin in quality to a sample roaster, but
>>>>lighter duty, would sell for so the manufacturers could make a decent
>>>>profit. He said around $1000 at these volumes. I didn't believe him,
>>>>but it seems he was right.
>>>
>>>ty Curtis meet Terry Davis. :-)
>>
>>From now on I'm referring to my notes before post; it was ty Davis.
>
> Errrr.....
>
> shall

could we try another combination? There are only so many possible ones




    
Date: 20 Feb 2007 19:20:04
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: review of KN-8828P Programmable roaster available.
"jim schulman" <jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote in message
news:o0ant2pp567bhu3rsl0ij9qtkkp9c870q8@4ax.com...
> >
>>>I asked ty Davis two years ago how much a properly built and
>>>controlled home roaster, akin in quality to a sample roaster, but
>>>lighter duty, would sell for so the manufacturers could make a decent
>>>profit. He said around $1000 at these volumes. I didn't believe him,
>>>but it seems he was right.
>>
>>ty Curtis meet Terry Davis. :-)
>
> From now on I'm referring to my notes before post; it was ty Davis.

3 or 4 years ago at the Canadian Coffee and Tea Expo, which happened to be
in Vancouver that year and by coincidence during an already planned trip of
mine there, I had occasion to discuss the issue of a one-poundish sized
sample roaster for the mass ket with a roaster manufacturer I won't name,
over at k Prince's then house in Richmond. I was told that one was in
the works, a gas fired version, to be made in the far east, and it would be
going on sale within a matter of months. Subsequently, at the next SCAA
meeting I chatted with one of the machine vendors we all know who caters to
people like us, and I was told about this same roaster, however the vendor
couldn't tell me which manufacturer he was teaming up with but its arrival
was imminent. It didn't take a genius to figure out who was working with
whom even though both of these individuals wouldn't tell me who their
partner was. The roaster has never materialized and I've not heard a word
since out of either of these fellows.

Since then, I've heard all sorts of rumors about gas fired small drum
roasters that were going to be sold to the enthusiast community, as well as
for use by roasters, at a price point of roughly $1000.

I haven't seen any of them and I'm not hold out much hope for them, either.

ken




 
Date: 20 Feb 2007 11:56:28
From: daveb
Subject: Re: review of KN-8828P Programmable roaster available.
On Feb 20, 1:47 pm, Randy G. <f...@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote:
> I just posted my personal review of the Hottop KN-8828P programmable
> coffee roaster on my website. The review is linked on the main page-
> right on top of the right-hand column.
>
> Randy "what more can I say?" G.http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com



A fine review of a very advanced home machine. but ouch -- big bucks

dave
www.hitechespresso.com