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Date: 16 Feb 2007 07:28:15
From:
Subject: revolutionary "JOE" roaster - where is it?
Anybody know what happened to this? About 9 months ago Joe Behm said
it was ready and going to be keted around the beginning of
February.

Since then haven't heard anything. Can't find any new references to it
in Google.

Have any of you heard anything?

Thanks,
Danny
firedog AT shani.net (AT = you know what)





 
Date: 19 Feb 2007 06:37:58
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: revolutionary "JOE" roaster - where is it?
On Feb 18, 9:15 pm, jw <notar...@emailaddress.com > wrote:
> They do amazing things with chopped liver these days. ;-)

'deed they do. I took a demo flight in a Mooney Hepatomeister 300
just the other day. A new design from the team of Billy Rubin and Al
Bumin, it really kicks AST. Excellent performance with the portacaval
shunt on the engine and those cool canards just behind the nose. The
engine runs on ethanol which is good for the environment but that
Laennec carburetor really gulps it down. The terrine seats mold
themselves to your body for great comfort on long flights.



  
Date: 19 Feb 2007 17:18:24
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: revolutionary "JOE" roaster - where is it?
Too bad this wasn't written in English. If you find a canard on your
airplane you should remove it immediately and roast it with orange sauce. I
hear doctors can fix those portacaval shunts as well.




<Omniryx@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1171895878.348824.307680@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 18, 9:15 pm, jw <notar...@emailaddress.com> wrote:
>> They do amazing things with chopped liver these days. ;-)
>
> 'deed they do. I took a demo flight in a Mooney Hepatomeister 300
> just the other day. A new design from the team of Billy Rubin and Al
> Bumin, it really kicks AST. Excellent performance with the portacaval
> shunt on the engine and those cool canards just behind the nose. The
> engine runs on ethanol which is good for the environment but that
> Laennec carburetor really gulps it down. The terrine seats mold
> themselves to your body for great comfort on long flights.
>
>




   
Date: 21 Feb 2007 03:00:18
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: revolutionary "JOE" roaster - where is it?
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 17:18:24 -0500, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:

>Too bad this wasn't written in English. If you find a canard on your
>airplane you should remove it immediately and roast it with orange sauce.

don't tell that to burt rutan.



 
Date: 18 Feb 2007 13:06:23
From: Johnny
Subject: Re: revolutionary "JOE" roaster - where is it?

<dannyket@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1171639695.325231.221440@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<snip/ >
> Since then haven't heard anything. Can't find any new references to it
> in Google.
>
<snip/ >
oh well if you missed it he:
"...asked for no publicity for now. "




 
Date: 16 Feb 2007 10:28:18
From: JulesG
Subject: Re: revolutionary "JOE" roaster - where is it?
On Feb 16, 11:15 am, "Jack Denver" <nunuv...@netscape.net > wrote:

> In the case of coffee roasting, the #1 insoluable problem is smoke
> control - every commercial coffee roasting machine on earth has a dedicated
> smoke vent but people aren't going to run a chimney into their house for
> their home coffee roaster and without it they stink up your house. Nor do
> people want kludgy things with hoses running out the window - they want to
> put the thing on their granite countertop and plug it in next to the food
> processor. And then there is timing the roast, controlling degree of roast,
> profiling, etc. - these you could hope to fix with "st' devices but no
> computer program is "st" enough to make smoke disappear. Nor do
> catalysts, etc. really solve the problem.
>

Many homes have an exhaust fan on top of the stove and lots of people
can roast outdoors. Of course, smoke will be a problem with the large
units that can roast 1 lb or more but for smaller units that roast 1/2
lb or less it should not be a problem for most owners.

Personnaly, I could not roast outdoors from November to April but I
sure can roast inside under the stove fan. I use a iRoast2 and smoke
is not a problem. When coming from outside, one can definitively
smell that I have been roasting but the odor is not really a problem.

I find that the prices for home roasters are way too expensive
compared to other appliances. Price per pound is sky high ! I'm
quite surprised that this does not motivate appliance manufacturers to
enter that ket.



  
Date: 16 Feb 2007 15:08:15
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: revolutionary "JOE" roaster - where is it?
Capacity is another problem - most people are not thrilled with the idea of
a 80g batch, which is what some home roasting devices produce. The game is
not worth the candle. There is a limit to the amount that you can roast on
a 120v line , especially using a fluid bed method (though it's a lot more
than 120g). But as you increase batch size the smoke problem increases as
well.

Home exhaust fans cannot be counted on. There is a wide range of what is
found in kitchens, ranging from no fan at all to fans that recirculate room
air back into the room after passing thru a (worthless) filter, fans that
vent to the outside but whose CFM rate is inadequate (most), fans without a
sufficient hood to capture smoke (again most), all the way to ones that
really work (the minority). Given this range, a roaster designer cannot
assume that an adequate vent fan will be present. I found that my fireplace
(with damper open) was much more effective than my powered kitchen vent
fan - it is actually designed to work using a time tested design (although
building it required a massive brick chimney to be built from my basement to
well above the roofline - thousands of $ worth of labor and materials) No
wonder that it works better than some piece of tin ductwork and a little
fan.

You are willing to put up with some smell from roasting but a lot of
consumers might not tolerate even a little smell/stink in their house and
would consider that to be disqualifying. Especially since the average
American has never even smelled coffee roasting and is disappointed that it
isn't nearly as pleasant a smell as granny's percolator, which is sort of
the gold standard for coffee smell (if not taste).

Some of the big boys (West Bend, Melitta) have considered or tried keting
home roasting appliances over the years but they have foundered on the same
rocks as everyone else.





"JulesG" <jules.gobeil@videotron.ca > wrote in message
news:1171650498.849293.260530@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Many homes have an exhaust fan on top of the stove and lots of people
> can roast outdoors. Of course, smoke will be a problem with the large
> units that can roast 1 lb or more but for smaller units that roast 1/2
> lb or less it should not be a problem for most owners.
>
> Personnaly, I could not roast outdoors from November to April but I
> sure can roast inside under the stove fan. I use a iRoast2 and smoke
> is not a problem. When coming from outside, one can definitively
> smell that I have been roasting but the odor is not really a problem.
>
> I find that the prices for home roasters are way too expensive
> compared to other appliances. Price per pound is sky high ! I'm
> quite surprised that this does not motivate appliance manufacturers to
> enter that ket.
>




   
Date: 17 Feb 2007 06:15:14
From: Mike Hartigan
Subject: Re: revolutionary "JOE" roaster - where is it?
In article <S8WdnVmMFJKtkkvYnZ2dnUVZ_riknZ2d@comcast.com >,
nunuvyer@netscape.net says...
> [...]
>
> Home exhaust fans cannot be counted on. There is a wide range of what is
> found in kitchens, ranging from no fan at all to fans that recirculate room
> air back into the room after passing thru a (worthless) filter

Excuse the sidebar, but a common misconception is that recirculating
fans/filters are designed to rid the air of smoke. That's not the
case. These 'filters' (actually, screens) are nothing but condensers
for the grease and other airborne solid gunk that is produced when
cooking. The grease condenses on the relatively cool screens (that's
why they're dripping with grease when you remove them), which are
then periodically washed in the dishwasher. Attempts have been made
to add charcoal filters to these units to help with the smoke and
odors, and, properly maintained, they're a far cry better than
nothing, but they're still not nearly as effective as a vented fan.
So, these filters are not worthless, they simply weren't designed nor
intended to do what many people expect of them. I just wanted to set
the record straight.

That said, WRT coffee roasting, they are, indeed, worthless.

--
-Mike


    
Date: 17 Feb 2007 08:36:30
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: revolutionary "JOE" roaster - where is it?
Mike Hartigan <mike@hartigan.dot.com > wrote:

>In article <S8WdnVmMFJKtkkvYnZ2dnUVZ_riknZ2d@comcast.com>,
>nunuvyer@netscape.net says...
>> [...]
>>
>> Home exhaust fans cannot be counted on. There is a wide range of what is
>> found in kitchens, ranging from no fan at all to fans that recirculate room
>> air back into the room after passing thru a (worthless) filter
>
>Excuse the sidebar, but a common misconception is that recirculating
>fans/filters are designed to rid the air of smoke. That's not the
>case. These 'filters' (actually, screens) are nothing but condensers
>for the grease and other airborne solid gunk that is produced when
>cooking. The grease condenses on the relatively cool screens (that's
>why they're dripping with grease when you remove them), which are
>then periodically washed in the dishwasher. Attempts have been made
>to add charcoal filters to these units to help with the smoke and
>odors, and, properly maintained, they're a far cry better than
>nothing, but they're still not nearly as effective as a vented fan.
>So, these filters are not worthless, they simply weren't designed nor
>intended to do what many people expect of them. I just wanted to set
>the record straight.
>
>That said, WRT coffee roasting, they are, indeed, worthless.
>

And another area of concern with roasting coffee is that the smoke
(like most smoke) is a respiratory irritant. More than a few roasters
have developed allergic reactions after being exposed to the smoke
(and coffee dust from the green coffee) severe enough to force them to
find other lines of work. The damage that can be done by breathing
this sort of fine particulate matter is cumulative. If you can smell
it in the house you have probably added to the particulate matter in
the air in the home. If you have children, elderly, or anyone with
allergies or breathing difficulties in the home, roasting inside is
not recommended.

There are ways to remove smoke efficiently. I made a wooden hood with
fan that fits in a window to roast with the HWP, and you can look here
http://www.pawlan.com/ccr.html
to see how Jeff P. dealt with it.

Randy "Smoke? Sure! Whatcha got?" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




 
Date: 16 Feb 2007 09:52:23
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: revolutionary "JOE" roaster - where is it?
No personal aircraft? What is that thing I've been flying around in,
chopped liver?



  
Date: 19 Feb 2007 02:15:43
From: jw
Subject: Re: revolutionary "JOE" roaster - where is it?
It came to pass that on 16 Feb 2007, Omniryx@gmail.com scribed thusly to
all in alt.coffee the following inspiration:

> No personal aircraft? What is that thing I've been flying around in,
> chopped liver?

They do amazing things with chopped liver these days. ;-)

--
jw

"An atheist is a person of tremendous faith."
--Rob Bell


  
Date: 16 Feb 2007 14:52:14
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: revolutionary "JOE" roaster - where is it?
I said that these things exist for those who are dedicated, just as there
home roasting devices for hobbyist. But compare the # of personal aircraft
operators to the # of automobile drivers , or the # of people who roast
coffee vs. the number who own toasters and I'll think you'll understand,
unless you are being purposely obtuse.


<Omniryx@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1171648343.792788.292820@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> No personal aircraft? What is that thing I've been flying around in,
> chopped liver?
>
>




 
Date: 16 Feb 2007 11:15:46
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: revolutionary "JOE" roaster - where is it?
Same fate as every other home coffee roasting appliance ever made I guess.
A coffee roaster that is at home in the kitchen of the average non-fanatic
person is one those things that is "the wave of the future" and always will
be. It's like personal aircraft - you've been reading about them as "just
around the corner" for the last 70 years but we never turn the corner.
Usually in these devices there is some principle of physics that makes such
devices impossible to housebreak. Dedicated hobbyists who are willing to
put up with inconvenience and a steep learning curve use the flawed versions
that are on the ket, but it always remains a niche and never breaks thru
to the broader public.

In the case of coffee roasting, the #1 insoluable problem is smoke
control - every commercial coffee roasting machine on earth has a dedicated
smoke vent but people aren't going to run a chimney into their house for
their home coffee roaster and without it they stink up your house. Nor do
people want kludgy things with hoses running out the window - they want to
put the thing on their granite countertop and plug it in next to the food
processor. And then there is timing the roast, controlling degree of roast,
profiling, etc. - these you could hope to fix with "st' devices but no
computer program is "st" enough to make smoke disappear. Nor do
catalysts, etc. really solve the problem.


<dannyket@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1171639695.325231.221440@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Anybody know what happened to this? About 9 months ago Joe Behm said
> it was ready and going to be keted around the beginning of
> February.
>
> Since then haven't heard anything. Can't find any new references to it
> in Google.
>
> Have any of you heard anything?
>
> Thanks,
> Danny
> firedog AT shani.net (AT = you know what)
>




  
Date: 16 Feb 2007 17:23:03
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: revolutionary "JOE" roaster - where is it?
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 11:15:46 -0500, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:

>A coffee roaster that is at home in the kitchen of the average non-fanatic
>person is one those things that is "the wave of the future" and always will
>be. It's like personal aircraft - you've been reading about them as "just
>around the corner" for the last 70 years but we never turn the corner.

The problem may not be technological. A more power efficient Z & D
style catalytic would do it; and in Europe where the wattage available
on a regular outlet is double of the US the problem is trivial, just
beef up the curent unit to 2400 watts.

In this case, the ket is a the problem. The people who will buy a
home roaster are those who buy very fresh coffee they grind
themselves. This is already a miniscule part of the public. It's
probably better to approach this ket with a high-effort,
high-return device than one that is designed to mass ket standards.
The Hottop (expensive and very good of the shelf) and the FR (cheap,
tough and very workable/moddable) seem to is the only models with
enduring sales.

The Hearthwares and Z&D can sell more in consumer style for short
periods, but it seems they have to treat these items like novelties
with ultra-short life cycles.

Only with the internet, where one can create functioning kets for
small and scattered publics, can home roasting exist at all.


  
Date: 16 Feb 2007 18:24:38
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: revolutionary "JOE" roaster - where is it?
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 11:15:46 -0500, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:

> In the case of coffee roasting, the #1 insoluable problem is smoke
>control - every commercial coffee roasting machine on earth has a dedicated
>smoke vent but people aren't going to run a chimney into their house for
>their home coffee roaster and without it they stink up your house. Nor do
>people want kludgy things with hoses running out the window - they want to
>put the thing on their granite countertop and plug it in next to the food
>processor. And then there is timing the roast, controlling degree of roast,
>profiling, etc. - these you could hope to fix with "st' devices but no
>computer program is "st" enough to make smoke disappear. Nor do
>catalysts, etc. really solve the problem.

I tested the Z&D for a couple of months and found the catalytic
converter did a pretty impressive job of smoke control. Unfortunately,
I never developed a taste for baked coffee beans.

shall


   
Date: 16 Feb 2007 14:54:02
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: revolutionary "JOE" roaster - where is it?
I don't think that was a coincidence - one of the ways to keep smoke down is
to keep the roasting process low and slow.


"shall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:rjtbt2dq2gcmv6cq2pfihkp533c119ds0u@4ax.com...
>
> I tested the Z&D for a couple of months and found the catalytic
> converter did a pretty impressive job of smoke control. Unfortunately,
> I never developed a taste for baked coffee beans.
>
> shall