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Date: 22 Mar 2007 22:09:30
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: rotary pump question
The NS Personal I'm currently working on has what appears to be a rotary
pump problem. I test them using a bottle of water & let the pump pull from
that. Until today it's been working OK, sort of. Sometimes there was no no
suction at the inlet, most of the time there was. Then today I believe the
pump gave up the ghost entirely.

I hooked a direct water line to it, turned it on, & here's what I observed;
1) boiler auto fills
2) brew pressure reads about 3 bar when boiler is filled (pump off)
3) pressing brew button (semi-auto model) produces only minimal water output

If I disconnect the output line from the pump to the machine I get water
line pressure output whether the pump's on or off. It seems the pump isn't
working & is bypassing the pump vanes, redirecting water flow directly to
the machine. I guess this is to protect the machine against overheating in
case the pump fails?

Does the above make sense? Are there any ways to pinpoint pump failure? The
NS pump is a Fluid-o-Tech. There's no model number on it but it looks
similar to the 4000 model. Can someone verify this & point me to someone
that sells a rebuild kit.

Thanks!
--
Robert
http://tinyurl.com/2tnv87






 
Date: 23 Mar 2007 03:23:07
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: rotary pump question
FOLLOW UP:
I removed the tube from the HX to the group (group heater in lieu of thermo
siphon?) & the horseshoe shaped tube that continues the loop to the group &
3-way solenoid. There's a screen in the fitting where the horseshoe shaped
tube fits into the group & 3-way valve. This screen was full of what could
have passed as the results of my last lythotrypsy.

I ran a small tube brush up into the HX & cleaned out a bit of gunk (not bad
but it'll look better after I descale it). I also pulled the boiler fill
tube (one tube to HX, one to boiler, & one tube to a OPV). I'd learned this
lesson on the Mac Digit & relearned it tonight - the three inch tube to the
boiler will ALWAYS be completely blocked or just short of being blocked.
Scale builds up there to the point of completely preventing the flow of
water into the boiler.

The more I look at the NS machines the more I truly believe that I got lucky
when I bought my Bunn ES-1A. It's easy to work on, easy to maintain, pulls a
great shot, and all-in-all makes an ideal home espresso machine. I don't
know why these Gaggia Espagnol machines get a bum rap; I suppose it's
because enough folks just haven't laid their hands on one.

I'll reassemble the Personal tomorrow & see if the problem's been take care
of.

Wish me luck!

--
Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/2tnv87
"Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote in message
news:u8DMh.12663$PL.1479@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> The NS Personal I'm currently working on has what appears to be a rotary
> pump problem. I test them using a bottle of water & let the pump pull from
> that. Until today it's been working OK, sort of. Sometimes there was no no
> suction at the inlet, most of the time there was. Then today I believe the
> pump gave up the ghost entirely.
>
> I hooked a direct water line to it, turned it on, & here's what I
> observed;
> 1) boiler auto fills
> 2) brew pressure reads about 3 bar when boiler is filled (pump off)
> 3) pressing brew button (semi-auto model) produces only minimal water
> output
>
> If I disconnect the output line from the pump to the machine I get water
> line pressure output whether the pump's on or off. It seems the pump isn't
> working & is bypassing the pump vanes, redirecting water flow directly to
> the machine. I guess this is to protect the machine against overheating in
> case the pump fails?
>
> Does the above make sense? Are there any ways to pinpoint pump failure?
> The NS pump is a Fluid-o-Tech. There's no model number on it but it looks
> similar to the 4000 model. Can someone verify this & point me to someone
> that sells a rebuild kit.
>
> Thanks!
> --
> Robert
> http://tinyurl.com/2tnv87
>




  
Date: 23 Mar 2007 06:22:17
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: rotary pump question
FOLLOW UP:
Actually I went ahead & did it tonight & guess what? Problem solved, and I
get a good volume of water through the group. My guess is that handling the
machine must have loosened some scale in the HX that broke up & jammed into
the screen. It was small particles & at least an 1/8" deep.

The main thing is the problem's solved & I can get on to other problems with
this machine. I'd like to thank everyone for helping me work this problem.
--
Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/2tnv87

"Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote in message
news:vKHMh.130326$_73.70606@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> FOLLOW UP:
> I removed the tube from the HX to the group (group heater in lieu of
> thermo siphon?) & the horseshoe shaped tube that continues the loop to the
> group & 3-way solenoid. There's a screen in the fitting where the
> horseshoe shaped tube fits into the group & 3-way valve. This screen was
> full of what could have passed as the results of my last lythotrypsy.
>
> I ran a small tube brush up into the HX & cleaned out a bit of gunk (not
> bad but it'll look better after I descale it). I also pulled the boiler
> fill tube (one tube to HX, one to boiler, & one tube to a OPV). I'd
> learned this lesson on the Mac Digit & relearned it tonight - the three
> inch tube to the boiler will ALWAYS be completely blocked or just short of
> being blocked. Scale builds up there to the point of completely preventing
> the flow of water into the boiler.
>
> The more I look at the NS machines the more I truly believe that I got
> lucky when I bought my Bunn ES-1A. It's easy to work on, easy to maintain,
> pulls a great shot, and all-in-all makes an ideal home espresso machine. I
> don't know why these Gaggia Espagnol machines get a bum rap; I suppose
> it's because enough folks just haven't laid their hands on one.
>
> I'll reassemble the Personal tomorrow & see if the problem's been take
> care of.
>
> Wish me luck!
>
> --
> Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmon
> http://tinyurl.com/2tnv87
> "Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:u8DMh.12663$PL.1479@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> The NS Personal I'm currently working on has what appears to be a rotary
>> pump problem. I test them using a bottle of water & let the pump pull
>> from that. Until today it's been working OK, sort of. Sometimes there was
>> no no suction at the inlet, most of the time there was. Then today I
>> believe the pump gave up the ghost entirely.
>>
>> I hooked a direct water line to it, turned it on, & here's what I
>> observed;
>> 1) boiler auto fills
>> 2) brew pressure reads about 3 bar when boiler is filled (pump off)
>> 3) pressing brew button (semi-auto model) produces only minimal water
>> output
>>
>> If I disconnect the output line from the pump to the machine I get water
>> line pressure output whether the pump's on or off. It seems the pump
>> isn't working & is bypassing the pump vanes, redirecting water flow
>> directly to the machine. I guess this is to protect the machine against
>> overheating in case the pump fails?
>>
>> Does the above make sense? Are there any ways to pinpoint pump failure?
>> The NS pump is a Fluid-o-Tech. There's no model number on it but it looks
>> similar to the 4000 model. Can someone verify this & point me to someone
>> that sells a rebuild kit.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> --
>> Robert
>> http://tinyurl.com/2tnv87
>>
>
>




  
Date: 22 Mar 2007 23:44:28
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: rotary pump question

"Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote in message
news:vKHMh.130326$_73.70606@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> FOLLOW UP:
> I removed the tube from the HX to the group (group heater in lieu of
> thermo siphon?) & the horseshoe shaped tube that continues the loop to
> the group & 3-way solenoid. There's a screen in the fitting where the
> horseshoe shaped tube fits into the group & 3-way valve. This screen
> was full of what could have passed as the results of my last
> lythotrypsy.
>
> I ran a small tube brush up into the HX & cleaned out a bit of gunk
> (not bad but it'll look better after I descale it). I also pulled the
> boiler fill tube (one tube to HX, one to boiler, & one tube to a OPV).
> I'd learned this lesson on the Mac Digit & relearned it tonight - the
> three inch tube to the boiler will ALWAYS be completely blocked or
> just short of being blocked. Scale builds up there to the point of
> completely preventing the flow of water into the boiler.
>
> The more I look at the NS machines the more I truly believe that I got
> lucky when I bought my Bunn ES-1A. It's easy to work on, easy to
> maintain, pulls a great shot, and all-in-all makes an ideal home
> espresso machine. I don't know why these Gaggia Espagnol machines get
> a bum rap; I suppose it's because enough folks just haven't laid their
> hands on one.
>
> I'll reassemble the Personal tomorrow & see if the problem's been take
> care of.
>
> Wish me luck!


Good luck Rob! Fingers crossed,
Cheers!
Craig.



 
Date: 23 Mar 2007 03:11:10
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: rotary pump question

>I hooked a direct water line to it, turned it on, & here's what I observed;
>1) boiler auto fills
>2) brew pressure reads about 3 bar when boiler is filled (pump off)
>3) pressing brew button (semi-auto model) produces only minimal water output
>

all of that is consistent with line pressure only.

have you visually checked to see if the pump motor is spinning when it
is supposed to?



  
Date: 23 Mar 2007 03:24:46
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: rotary pump question
The motor turns; does that confirm it?

--
Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/2tnv87
"Barry Jarrett" <barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote in message
news:m8h6039oh7m75sf00hq4h9vns8lm9i3m4c@4ax.com...
>
> >I hooked a direct water line to it, turned it on, & here's what I
> >observed;
> >1) boiler auto fills
> >2) brew pressure reads about 3 bar when boiler is filled (pump off)
> >3) pressing brew button (semi-auto model) produces only minimal water
> >output
> >
>
> all of that is consistent with line pressure only.
>
> have you visually checked to see if the pump motor is spinning when it
> is supposed to?
>




   
Date: 23 Mar 2007 05:04:11
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: rotary pump question
On Fri, 23 2007 03:24:46 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
<r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:

>The motor turns; does that confirm it?


pretty much.



 
Date: 22 Mar 2007 22:28:33
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: rotary pump question
"Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote in
news:u8DMh.12663$PL.1479@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net:

> The NS Personal I'm currently working on has what appears to be a
> rotary pump problem. I test them using a bottle of water & let the
> pump pull from that. Until today it's been working OK, sort of.
> Sometimes there was no no suction at the inlet, most of the time there
> was. Then today I believe the pump gave up the ghost entirely.
>
> I hooked a direct water line to it, turned it on, & here's what I
> observed; 1) boiler auto fills
> 2) brew pressure reads about 3 bar when boiler is filled (pump off)
> 3) pressing brew button (semi-auto model) produces only minimal water
> output
>
> If I disconnect the output line from the pump to the machine I get
> water line pressure output whether the pump's on or off. It seems the
> pump isn't working & is bypassing the pump vanes, redirecting water
> flow directly to the machine. I guess this is to protect the machine
> against overheating in case the pump fails?
>
> Does the above make sense? Are there any ways to pinpoint pump
> failure? The NS pump is a Fluid-o-Tech. There's no model number on it
> but it looks similar to the 4000 model. Can someone verify this &
> point me to someone that sells a rebuild kit.
>
> Thanks!

I was looking at something else when I posted the above - the pump is
either a regular brass or "Compact" model.

Robert
--
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
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