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Date: 16 Jun 2007 12:57:59
From: Aimee
Subject: super automatics
I admit it -- I wan't a super auto, but they are really expensive!!!
I'm looking at a few models and was wondering what the experts thought
about them.

1- Gaggia Titanium SS

2- DeLonghi Magnifica 3500

3- Jura Capresso S9 Avantgarde (a little out of my price range, but I
like it a lot)

4- Jura Capresso Impressa Z5 ( a lot out of my price range, but WLL
has a refurb model)


Any opinions to help me narrow down my list?


Thanks a lot!





 
Date: 16 Jun 2007 23:01:58
From: roland
Subject: Re: super automatics
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 12:57:59 -0700, Aimee <aimee_wilson@hotmail.com >
wrote:

>I admit it -- I wan't a super auto, but they are really expensive!!!
>I'm looking at a few models and was wondering what the experts thought
>about them.
>
>1- Gaggia Titanium SS
>
>2- DeLonghi Magnifica 3500
>
>3- Jura Capresso S9 Avantgarde (a little out of my price range, but I
>like it a lot)
>
>4- Jura Capresso Impressa Z5 ( a lot out of my price range, but WLL
>has a refurb model)
>
>
>Any opinions to help me narrow down my list?
>
Hello
I am a Jura fan...

If you are in cappuccino, go for the Z5!

Best milk foam any Jura machine ever produced.

We had one a few months and were very pleased with it.

A X9 replaced it, better adapted to our small shop. (and still best
foam in town)


roland
--
The Gods, who are infinite, give everything entirely to those whom they love: all joys, which are infinite, and all griefs, which are infinite - entirely.
J.W.v.Goethe


  
Date: 17 Jun 2007 03:31:20
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: super automatics
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 23:01:58 +0200, roland <orlando2@fantasymail.de >
wrote:

>Hello
>I am a Jura fan...
>
>If you are in cappuccino, go for the Z5!
>
>Best milk foam any Jura machine ever produced.
>
>We had one a few months and were very pleased with it.
>
>A X9 replaced it, better adapted to our small shop. (and still best
>foam in town)
>
>
>roland

Where's your shop, Roland? SCAA is starting a program of regional
skill-building workshops (D.C. is first), that will teach you so much
about foaming in a couple of hours, you'll never give your Jura's foam
another look (not to mention its espresso).

Marshall


   
Date: 17 Jun 2007 09:31:14
From: roland
Subject: Re: super automatics
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 03:31:20 GMT, Marshall
<mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:

>Where's your shop, Roland? SCAA is starting a program of regional
>skill-building workshops (D.C. is first), that will teach you so much
>about foaming in a couple of hours, you'll never give your Jura's foam
>another look (not to mention its espresso).

Hello Marshall.

Thank you for your kind advice.
I'm afraid it won't help me much since I live in Munich, Germany.
We try to make a living on about 16 square meters, selling press,
tobacco, incense, tea and since about a year, coffee.
The Jura machine you dislike so much has found a neat little place
along with it's mini-fridge and cup-warmer. It works like a charm in
my back while I am (hopefully) busy with other things. It helps
promote the expensive Espresso coffee we try to sell to, at first,
reticent customers.
Oh, and while I find it interesting, any kind of Latte "Art" is not at
all what I am aiming at.

Reading this group has really widened my horizon, it also has a high
entertainment value for me at times.

Best,

roland a. koch
--
Auf den Spuren des Prinzen Genji - Erlesene Japanische Düfte
http://www.rorando.de


    
Date: 17 Jun 2007 09:54:32
From: Danny
Subject: Re: super automatics
roland wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 03:31:20 GMT, Marshall
> <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Where's your shop, Roland? SCAA is starting a program of regional
>>skill-building workshops (D.C. is first), that will teach you so much
>>about foaming in a couple of hours, you'll never give your Jura's foam
>>another look (not to mention its espresso).
>
>
> Hello Marshall.
>
> Thank you for your kind advice.
> I'm afraid it won't help me much since I live in Munich, Germany.
> We try to make a living on about 16 square meters, selling press,
> tobacco, incense, tea and since about a year, coffee.
> The Jura machine you dislike so much has found a neat little place
> along with it's mini-fridge and cup-warmer. It works like a charm in
> my back while I am (hopefully) busy with other things. It helps
> promote the expensive Espresso coffee we try to sell to, at first,
> reticent customers.
> Oh, and while I find it interesting, any kind of Latte "Art" is not at
> all what I am aiming at.
>
> Reading this group has really widened my horizon, it also has a high
> entertainment value for me at times.
>


Just because a machine is super easy to use doesn't mean that it
produces a quality beverage. You cannot hope to produce good
espresso-based drinks by not paying attention to the process. There
are many places round me that use superautos and no-one I know would
ever drink a straight espresso from them. Properly tuned, the larger
Cimbali supers etc can produce shots, but the small supers are best
suited to milk drinks that happen to have some (over extracted) coffee
in them.

My business (amongst all those superautos) depends on my coffee being
far better (even if a little more expensive) in order to generate
repeat business, which in 6 years I've slowly succeeded at.

I have many european customers (we are reasonably close to Portsmouth
Ferry terminal), of which quite a few have been german, and they
regularly compliment me on the coffee, wanting to chat about it and
often say how bad the coffee they have in Germany is.

I'd always aim for the high ground, and use vintage lever machines to
accentuate the "barista" element of espresso, but I'm just selling
coffee, whereas coffee seems a sideline in your business.


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
(apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)



     
Date: 17 Jun 2007 13:04:03
From: roland
Subject: Re: super automatics
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 09:54:32 +0100, Danny
<danny@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote:

>Just because a machine is super easy to use doesn't mean that it
>produces a quality beverage. You cannot hope to produce good
>espresso-based drinks by not paying attention to the process. There
>are many places round me that use superautos and no-one I know would
>ever drink a straight espresso from them. Properly tuned, the larger
>Cimbali supers etc can produce shots, but the small supers are best
>suited to milk drinks that happen to have some (over extracted) coffee
>in them.
>
>My business (amongst all those superautos) depends on my coffee being
>far better (even if a little more expensive) in order to generate
>repeat business, which in 6 years I've slowly succeeded at.
>
>I have many european customers (we are reasonably close to Portsmouth
>Ferry terminal), of which quite a few have been german, and they
>regularly compliment me on the coffee, wanting to chat about it and
>often say how bad the coffee they have in Germany is.
>
>I'd always aim for the high ground, and use vintage lever machines to
>accentuate the "barista" element of espresso, but I'm just selling
>coffee, whereas coffee seems a sideline in your business.

Hello Danny.

Many, many years ago, I attended the École Hotelière in Strasbourg,
France.
I worked as a cook and waiter in some 5* hotels both in France and
Germany before remembering what one of my instructors said to me:
<<L'hotellerie mène à tout, à condition d'en sortir. >> and took over
this small shop.
Always open to new ideas, but too small a budget (and probably too
lazy) to go to another area.
So, when I gave it a try last year, coffee-selling was just a kind of
back to he roots for me. Our shop is unusual in this small side
street, "Old" customers die away, one has to look for the younger
ones. Curiously enough, the core of our regular Espresso-drinking
habituès is over 50:-))
The younger tend to Latte.

As for the coffee being far better... well, given the small place, I
am just at ease with my Jura.
Since January, we got us a fierce concurrent door to door,
convenience-shop. They sell and serve Darboven Coffee in its Burkhof
and "Alberto" labels. Very successful on the "normal" coffee segment
which we can forget meanwhile.
Now, Espresso, which you wouldn't drink here, has developed quite
well, even increasing since the new neighborhood:-)
We use only what we find to be best suited brands like Lucaffe and
Hausbrandt. Seems I am on the right path. Said a non-coffee customer:
<<your neighbors is 50 cents cheaper, burt yours smell by far
better! >>.

Of course I survey what I do when serving coffee, it's just that when
I prepare a Latte Macchiato, I really have some spare time to prepare
the saucer and chocolate or cookie to go with:-))

There are many bomb spared old buildings near our area. Each time I
see one of those with the high ceilings I catch me dreaming of a nice
Diedrich roaster in a room with nice wood furniture and all but famous
coffee signs on the walls while Reneka Machines shine..(this would be
due to my alsatian origin)
And then, wake up and remember how often the location was unoccupied
due to the horrendous rent:-((

As for bad coffee in Germany, well, you probably know better how bad
coffee can taste in your country...
From what I read in this group, the problem seems to be found in every
country in the world:-))
I do hope that my efforts will raise the average a bit...

Not so long ago I was in Paris. Our hotel served a very good Cafe
Richard. I was extremely well surprised when they served me an Exprèss
from them which tasted really good. Surprised, because some months
ago, I had a really awful experience with the same brand in an obscure
Café de la Gare.

So, I continue to hope for the Lotto-gain and prepare to move....

Best

roland a. koch
--
Auf den Spuren des Prinzen Genji - Erlesene Japanische Düfte
http://www.rorando.de


      
Date: 17 Jun 2007 07:30:16
From: bernie
Subject: Re: super automatics
roland wrote:


>
> Hello Danny.
>
> Many, many years ago, I attended the École Hotelière in Strasbourg,
> France.
> I worked as a cook and waiter in some 5* hotels both in France and
> Germany before remembering what one of my instructors said to me:
> <<L'hotellerie mène à tout, à condition d'en sortir.>> and took over
> this small shop.
> Always open to new ideas, but too small a budget (and probably too
> lazy) to go to another area.
> So, when I gave it a try last year, coffee-selling was just a kind of
> back to he roots for me. Our shop is unusual in this small side
> street, "Old" customers die away, one has to look for the younger
> ones. Curiously enough, the core of our regular Espresso-drinking
> habituès is over 50:-))
> The younger tend to Latte.
>
> As for the coffee being far better... well, given the small place, I
> am just at ease with my Jura.
> Since January, we got us a fierce concurrent door to door,
> convenience-shop. They sell and serve Darboven Coffee in its Burkhof
> and "Alberto" labels. Very successful on the "normal" coffee segment
> which we can forget meanwhile.
> Now, Espresso, which you wouldn't drink here, has developed quite
> well, even increasing since the new neighborhood:-)
> We use only what we find to be best suited brands like Lucaffe and
> Hausbrandt. Seems I am on the right path. Said a non-coffee customer:
> <<your neighbors is 50 cents cheaper, burt yours smell by far
> better!>>.
>
> Of course I survey what I do when serving coffee, it's just that when
> I prepare a Latte Macchiato, I really have some spare time to prepare
> the saucer and chocolate or cookie to go with:-))
>
> There are many bomb spared old buildings near our area. Each time I
> see one of those with the high ceilings I catch me dreaming of a nice
> Diedrich roaster in a room with nice wood furniture and all but famous
> coffee signs on the walls while Reneka Machines shine..(this would be
> due to my alsatian origin)
> And then, wake up and remember how often the location was unoccupied
> due to the horrendous rent:-((
>
> As for bad coffee in Germany, well, you probably know better how bad
> coffee can taste in your country...
> From what I read in this group, the problem seems to be found in every
> country in the world:-))
> I do hope that my efforts will raise the average a bit...
>
> Not so long ago I was in Paris. Our hotel served a very good Cafe
> Richard. I was extremely well surprised when they served me an Exprèss
> from them which tasted really good. Surprised, because some months
> ago, I had a really awful experience with the same brand in an obscure
> Café de la Gare.
>
> So, I continue to hope for the Lotto-gain and prepare to move....
>
> Best
>
> roland a. koch

Best of luck, Roland. Where in Germany are you? I lived outside
Schwaebisch Gmuend for three years while in the Army. I still drive the
BMW R67/3 and Steib TR500 sidecar I bought and that was over 30 years
ago. I was supposed to be in the Army, but it seemed like a big long
holiday.
Bernie


       
Date: 17 Jun 2007 16:27:57
From: roland
Subject: Re: super automatics
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 07:30:16 -0600, bernie <bdigman@zianet.com > wrote:

>Best of luck, Roland. Where in Germany are you? I lived outside
>Schwaebisch Gmuend for three years while in the Army. I still drive the
>BMW R67/3 and Steib TR500 sidecar I bought and that was over 30 years
>ago. I was supposed to be in the Army, but it seemed like a big long
>holiday.

Hello Bernie.

If you pay me much money, say to pay the rent of that location I dream
of, I would consider driving in that sidecar:;-))

Muenchen is the town.
Outside Schwaebisch Gmuend, now this IS really outside :-)


roland a. koch
--
Auf den Spuren des Prinzen Genji - Erlesene Japanische Düfte
http://www.rorando.de


        
Date: 18 Jun 2007 08:49:44
From: daveb
Subject: Re: super automatics
Get the LEAST expensive Saeco or gaggia.
they are all the same internally.

And if you want to have a super? good for you.

DAve



"roland" <orlando2@fantasymail.de > wrote in message
news:kpga73thjsguuch08q403hrbp84lv5t1va@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 07:30:16 -0600, bernie <bdigman@zianet.com> wrote:
>
>>Best of luck, Roland. Where in Germany are you? I lived outside
>>Schwaebisch Gmuend for three years while in the Army. I still drive the
>>BMW R67/3 and Steib TR500 sidecar I bought and that was over 30 years
>>ago. I was supposed to be in the Army, but it seemed like a big long
>>holiday.
>
> Hello Bernie.
>
> If you pay me much money, say to pay the rent of that location I dream
> of, I would consider driving in that sidecar:;-))
>
> Muenchen is the town.
> Outside Schwaebisch Gmuend, now this IS really outside :-)
>
>
> roland a. koch
> --
> Auf den Spuren des Prinzen Genji - Erlesene Japanische Düfte
> http://www.rorando.de




         
Date: 18 Jun 2007 22:13:37
From: Danny
Subject: Re: super automatics
daveb wrote:
> Get the LEAST expensive Saeco or gaggia.
> they are all the same internally.
>
> And if you want to have a super? good for you.

So you recommend the use of a domestic Saeco etc in a commercial
environment, since the OP has a tea/coffeeshop?


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
(apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)